Posted on 12/17/2005 5:37:00 PM PST by blam
The point I've been trying to make, perhaps badly, was that China "punched way below it's weight" with regards to the war of 1937-1945. The army that invaded Korea in 1950 was not only willing, but eager, to offer battle. The change in offensive spirit cannot simply be chalked up to mere 'revolutionary fervor'. The Nationalists and Communists during the Second World War avoided battle, husbanding resources for a war against each other, despite the fact that Japan threatened China with extinction.
As for the Russians 'getting lucky', that's a fallacy. The Nazis did, of course, ignore the rasputitsa (as the Russians call the seasonal floods), but in the end, what saved Russia was the fact that germany simply ran out of soldiers. Germany could not continue to advance into the Soviet Union and still maintain enough cohesion and concentration of force to hold onto thier gains. Allied aid, especially American, kept the Russiams on their feet until they were ready to take the fight to scattered nazi armies at the end of an extremely long supply line.
The Japanese found themselves in a similar position. They simply could never muster enough troops to both occupy China in any meaningful way and so the war there became little more than the parading of armed men. The Chinese, if suitably motivated, could have pushed the Japanese out of China at any given moment, I believe, Chinese numbers and Allied supply making up for Japanese "technical superiority" (remember, this was basically the same Japanese army that had lost to the Russians in 1939, who were not all that technically advanced except in armor. Russian numbers and concentration overcame Japanese skill and technology).
You say the allies would not have won without the Chinese, but I say it's more like they won DESPITE the Chinese.
At the end of the day, the Russians, French, Poles, etc, fought, and usually well, unlike the Chinese.
I'd agree that both Chiang and Mao underestimated the Japanese, but i'd disagree that both didn't fight well. You also OVERESTIMATED the support China got from its allies.
The fact is, if there is no Russian front, and if there is no China containing the Japanese, the Germans would have only had to deal with one side, and the Japanese would concentrate its energy on naval battles against the US, etc. instead of having to spent resources trying to control China (which it couldn't). I'd say that 20 million estimated casualties from China means it did resist and resisted pretty hard. (that's 20 million including civilian casualties) In fact, if the bulk of its army isn't tied up in China but rather in Japan, I don't think 2 atom bombs will cause them to surrender and US will have to face a huge casualty bill in order to win (if it would win against Japan, had Japan not gotten itself in China).
But of course, strategically, the Japanese can't control the world without Asia, and the key to Asia dominancy is control of China.
Are you going to compare Taishi with RAPE OF NANJING?? Is that the best you can offer?
(I can counter with say, some of the civil rights murders by government officials in the south and the death toll would have been the same).
At least, that appears to be his position.
"Stupid communists.
The ironic thing is that over the next fifty years if japan had maintained control over China and we had not liberated China millions less Chinese people would have died via murder and famine and torture and China would be a lot wealthier and modern today.
I thin we should let Japan at em again."
I dont think China will leave Japan go that easy, The second a jap starts a war, Japan will be nothing more than a bunch of huge mushroom clouds. Honestly, Anti-Jap sentiment in China, Nuclear Stockpile in a Chinese Armory. Do the the math. Thats right Jap Sautee avec de la fumee Anyone?
Forget reparations -- at least apologize -- the Japanese haven't done that. The Germans on the other hand have apologized over and over again and I think we can let them off now. They also teach their kinder that the war was evil, that the Germans did bad things and that it should not be repeated. The Japanese govt. doesn't do any of that, while they SHOULD.
IIRC, Rabe joined the party in order to be part of the local school board ( for the Chinese employees of Siemans). He later said that because he got no news from Europe except for German papers, he had the impression that Hitler was a good man. Rabe's is a heroic and tragic story.
China will NOT attack the US militarily, not for another 40 years at least -- it's right now workign hard to enrich itself and bring it's people out of poverty. My guess is that when that DOES happen, the Chinese will be too happy to really want to fight anyone. The real problem as far as war goes will beIslam and onlyIslam
You'd be surprised at how many grunts in the army think that Japan has nukes. Sad but true.
"You've got one of those things?"
dragon 8
Works good. I write reports for a living and am on the verge of carpal tunnel, so its a lifesaver. Not sure others would use it yet---but another version or 2 and I think keyboards will be going away in large #s.
I thought Pu-Yi was discredited and disgraced because he was little more than a puppet/rubber-stamp "leader" for the phony "Manchukuo" Japanese-controlled state.
They didn't. Basically after 1911 when Dr. Sun Yatsen started the revolution, the emperor's powers were stripped. Unfortunately while Dr. Sun believes in democracy (he grew up in Hawaii), the rest of the players did not.
One thing is for certain - the people supported Mao because of what they see as corrupt generals from Chiang's army. Of course, the peasants bought into the socialism propaganda offered by Mao as well. THe people may not support the communists as much today, but in 1945-1949, they did. You simply can't hold on the country if you don't have popular support.
Yes which is more of the ChiCom ludicrousness on this issue when they bring it up like clockwork.
Mao said the Japanese need never apologize and that they need to actually thank the japanese.
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