Posted on 12/14/2005 2:41:02 PM PST by kellynla
HOLD THE PRESSES. I've discovered that the use of torture by the U.S. government is far more pervasive than previously believed. There are major facilities all over the country where thousands of men and women who have not committed any crime are held for prolonged periods while subjected to physical and psychological coercion that violates every tenet of the Geneva Convention.
They are routinely made to stand for long periods in uncomfortable positions. They are made to walk for hours while wearing heavy loads on their backs. They are bullied by martinets who get in their faces and yell insults at them. They are hit and often knocked down with clubs known as pugil sticks. They are denied sleep for more than a day at a time. They are forced to inhale tear gas. They are prevented from seeing friends or family. Some are traumatized by this treatment. Others are injured. A few even die.
Should Amnesty International or the International Committee of the Red Cross want to investigate these human-rights abuses, they could visit Parris Island, S.C., Camp Pendleton, Calif., Ft. Benning, Ga., Ft. Jackson, S.C., and other bases where the Army and Marines train recruits. It's worth keeping in mind how roughly the U.S. government treats its own defenders before we get too worked up over the treatment of captured terrorists.
With all the uproar over torture, you would think we handled prisoners the way Saddam Hussein did. The former dictator's trial has featured copious testimony on how his goons raped, mutilated, beat or murdered those who fell under suspicion of disloyalty. This type of treatment — fingernails pulled, electric shocks applied, sharp objects put where they don't belong — is what the word "torture" commonly connotes. That's not what American operatives are up to.
(Excerpt) Read more at latimes.com ...
what time is hume on there. whyaintchawatching?
"A pal of mine who did it years back (early 90's) snuck off base during the exercise (you could say 'AWOL')and checked in at a nice hotel and kicked it for a week while the rest of his team got 'captured'. Then he dirtied himself up, snuck back on base, and ended up with a commendation in his jacket for evading one of the best S&C teams in the world. He should have been cashiered but he cooked up some cock and bull story that mostly got a wink and a nod"
Your buddy is full of it. The "excerise" part is held out in the middle of the desert or way up in the Maine woods. You don't even know where the hell you are when it starts!
Not from what I've seen. Why did you think that I meant that? (Army doesn't have Gunnies, and I wasn't talking about Marine boot camp anyways).
When I went to Navy boot in San Diego, every now and then some idjit would go over the fence - into Marine boot camp. We were told that if anybody did that the Marines would keep them for 12 weeks, and make them go through Marine boot camp. Then they would give them back to the Navy, where they'd spend some time in the brig, and then go through 8 more weeks of Navy boot camp.
We did have a couple of guys jump the fence, but never that one! I always wondered why they would jump the fence anyways. All they had to do was refuse to obey orders and get a general discharge. Jump the fence and you do time in the brig, then get a discharge that maybe is a bit worse than a general discharge.
Maybe the Navy still does the stress cards, but the Marines don't and as far as I know the Army and AF don't either.
I worked in a Infantry One-Station Unit Training company at Ft. Benning from late 1997 to early 1999. There were no stress cards there, I guarantee you. Around the beginning of 1999, my unit (1-38 IN) transitioned into Basic Training (non-MOS specific) from Infantry OSUT. We got an influx of drill sergeants from Ft. Jackson - they didn't have them there either.
It amazes me that no one ever asks why NOT ONE of these cards has ever appeared.
I *am* watching, ya Jagoof!
Got it goin' in a little window here on the side.
I remember that at San Diego back in 69-70. It was a lot of fun to watch the poor dumb swabbie get put into a Marine platoon and have to endure our training, even if only for a day. They truly thought that they had entered the lowest level of hell.
Hey, ask your nephew sometime about Hydration Formations! LOL!
A friend of mine just enlisted in the Army and will be leaving just after the new year. His recruiter just told us that he was under the impression that stress cards were still used at the "co-ed bootcamps" but not at all of them. I have no idea which Army bootcamps are co-ed or exactly what he meant by the term.
Co-ed boot camps are boot camps where there are both men and women in the same company. My nephew was in one of those, so this is starting to make some sense.
Why? What a waste of resources. This military is different than what was drafted or even joined in the VOLAR army times.
What?? When was this? If I had known it was *that* easy, I could have saved myself a lot of trouble.
What about Article 15's? What about Courts Martial?
I was in Navy boot camp in 1980. The Navy figured that they weren't worth the trouble. If they wanted out, it was cheaper and easier in the long run to just get rid of them.
There will always be a certain percent of recruits that are washed out for a varity of reasons. There were before and after the draft as well as now.
Same policy.
While at boot camp an older recruit (29 years-old) had been made our platoon leader. The guy was a psychotic a**hole who threatened and/or hit anyone who didn't jump to his tune.
About three weeks in we went for our CS chamber training. On the way out of the chamber this dude goes down on his knees blocking the way out for the rest of us. The DI grabs the back of his collar to bring him to his feet and get him moving. The guy comes up swinging. His fist missed the DI's chin by a hair, but flipped the DIs campaign hat off his head. His asst. DI called us to attention and about faced us just as our platoon bully received some tree-to-tree counseling. We got to hear the guys head thud against a couple of tree trunks behind us.
Two day later the guy was out of the Army on an undesireable discharge. We told the assistant DI we had no intention of saying anything other than the DI was defending himself. We would gladly have helped kick that guys ass. All my DI's were pretty cool. Hardasses, but cool.
I'll be d@amned. I was tortured by the U.S. Government and didn't know it.
Hmmmm,interesting attitude.I joined (Army) in '69 when the attitude wasn't so "progressive".If you had a pulse,you were in for the duration.Also,the dishonorable discharge was given out often and was something that was feared by anyone with an IQ over 40.
That differs from what the poster to whom I replies was referring.
The "Good Old Days" when DI's beat recruits; when a third of the platoon washed out in the first week, when blanket parties were routine....wasn't as real as people remember.
The guy that I talked to said that as far as he knew, the "stress card" had been done away with. However, he has been out of boot camp for quite some time now and isn't sure that they don't still do it. He did say that he was in a training facility and a guy pulled one on him once. He is checking around to see if he knows anybody that kept one, and asked to have me call back in a few days for a copy of one (if he can find one).
Don't believe me? Call your local Army Recruiter and ask. Phone book, under "Recruiter".
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