Education panel stalls curriculum vote for creationism appeal [S. Carolina, another Kansas?]

MyrtleBeachOnline ^ | 14 December 2005 | Staff

[Elsie]

1 Corinthians 7:21

Were you a slave when you were called? Don't let it trouble you--although if you can gain your freedom, do so.

[CarolinaGuitarman]

These aren't antislavery. Try again.

[CarolinaGuitarman]

"1 Corinthians 7:21

Were you a slave when you were called? Don't let it trouble you--although if you can gain your freedom, do so."

This isn't against the institution of slavery. Try again.

[Elsie]

How could it be antislavery if Moses and Aaron were allowed to have their own slaves?

 

(I wasn't speaking to the ANTI part of your question.)

 

You know as well as most, that the SLAVERY that appears in most places in the Book is NOT the forced kind, but more of an endentured person, especially in the NT.

 

Romans 6

 

 1.  What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase?
 2.  By no means! We died to sin; how can we live in it any longer?
 3.  Or don't you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death?
 4.  We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life. 
 5.  If we have been united with him like this in his death, we will certainly also be united with him in his resurrection.
 6.  For we know that our old self was crucified with him so that the body of sin might be done away with,  that we should no longer be slaves to sin--
 7.  because anyone who has died has been freed from sin.
 8.  Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we will also live with him.
 9.  For we know that since Christ was raised from the dead, he cannot die again; death no longer has mastery over him.
 10.  The death he died, he died to sin once for all; but the life he lives, he lives to God.
 11.  In the same way, count yourselves dead to sin but alive to God in Christ Jesus.
 12.  Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its evil desires.
 13.  Do not offer the parts of your body to sin, as instruments of wickedness, but rather offer yourselves to God, as those who have been brought from death to life; and offer the parts of your body to him as instruments of righteousness.
 14.  For sin shall not be your master, because you are not under law, but under grace.
 15.  What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? By no means!
 16.  Don't you know that when you offer yourselves to someone to obey him as slaves, you are slaves to the one whom you obey--whether you are slaves to sin, which leads to death, or to obedience, which leads to righteousness?
 17.  But thanks be to God that, though you used to be slaves to sin, you wholeheartedly obeyed the form of teaching to which you were entrusted.
 18.  You have been set free from sin and have become slaves to righteousness.
 19.  I put this in human terms because you are weak in your natural selves. Just as you used to offer the parts of your body in slavery to impurity and to ever-increasing wickedness, so now offer them in slavery to righteousness leading to holiness.
 20.  When you were slaves to sin, you were free from the control of righteousness.
 21.  What benefit did you reap at that time from the things you are now ashamed of? Those things result in death!
 22.  But now that you have been set free from sin and have become slaves to God, the benefit you reap leads to holiness, and the result is eternal life.
 23.  For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

 

 

Wages ... payment for work done.

[Elsie]

Philemon 1

 

 Philemon

 

 1.  Paul, a prisoner of Christ Jesus, and Timothy our brother,   To Philemon our dear friend and fellow worker,
 2.  to Apphia our sister, to Archippus our fellow soldier and to the church that meets in your home:
 3.  Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.
 4.  I always thank my God as I remember you in my prayers,
 5.  because I hear about your faith in the Lord Jesus and your love for all the saints.
 6.  I pray that you may be active in sharing your faith, so that you will have a full understanding of every good thing we have in Christ.
 7.  Your love has given me great joy and encouragement, because you, brother, have refreshed the hearts of the saints.
 8.  Therefore, although in Christ I could be bold and order you to do what you ought to do,
 9.  yet I appeal to you on the basis of love. I then, as Paul--an old man and now also a prisoner of Christ Jesus--
 10.  I appeal to you for my son Onesimus,  who became my son while I was in chains.
 11.  Formerly he was useless to you, but now he has become useful both to you and to me.
 12.  I am sending him--who is my very heart--back to you.
 13.  I would have liked to keep him with me so that he could take your place in helping me while I am in chains for the gospel.
 14.  But I did not want to do anything without your consent, so that any favor you do will be spontaneous and not forced.
 15.  Perhaps the reason he was separated from you for a little while was that you might have him back for good--
 16.  no longer as a slave, but better than a slave, as a dear brother. He is very dear to me but even dearer to you, both as a man and as a brother in the Lord.
 17.  So if you consider me a partner, welcome him as you would welcome me.
 18.  If he has done you any wrong or owes you anything, charge it to me.
 19.  I, Paul, am writing this with my own hand. I will pay it back--not to mention that you owe me your very self.
 20.  I do wish, brother, that I may have some benefit from you in the Lord; refresh my heart in Christ.
 21.  Confident of your obedience, I write to you, knowing that you will do even more than I ask.
 22.  And one thing more: Prepare a guest room for me, because I hope to be restored to you in answer to your prayers.
 23.  Epaphras, my fellow prisoner in Christ Jesus, sends you greetings.
 24.  And so do Mark, Aristarchus, Demas and Luke, my fellow workers.
 25.  The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ be with your spirit.

[CarolinaGuitarman]

"You know as well as most, that the SLAVERY that appears in most places in the Book is NOT the forced kind, but more of an endentured person, especially in the NT."

Horse manure. Slavery is slavery.

[CarolinaGuitarman]

Nothing there against the institution of slavery.

[Chiapet]

I've been noticing that our little troll for the day changes syntax in nearly every post demonstrating that he's copying all his dishonest little lies from various sources. He must be a member of one of those lie your way into heaven churches.

I'm pretty sure that there's a script that they all follow. I think the script comes in the form of one of those "choose your own adventure" books, so they can mix it up as the responses to their inanities come in.

[TheWormster]

How could it be antislavery if Moses and Aaron were allowed to have their own slaves?

(I wasn't speaking to the ANTI part of your question.)

You know as well as most, that the SLAVERY that appears in most places in the Book is NOT the forced kind, but more of an endentured person, especially in the NT.

--

That truly is bullshit. The slaves in the Bible, new and old testament were your normal, common or garden, slaves. They were owned. They were property.
There were special rules for Hebrew slaves, but foreign slaves in the OT were property for life, and even longer.
As for the NT, that was in Roman times, and the institution of slavery was again a form of chattel ownership, not indenture.

[cornelis]

This is waaay off topic, even though it is an important topic.

To answer it, we should really go to the religion forum.

But I'll bet some Joe will claim that there was silence. So it should be answered briefly.

So far the sophistic syllogism has been proposed: (a) slavery is wrong (b) The Bible doesn't say slavery is wrong (c) The Bible condones slavery

The fallacy in this kind of argument is mostly in its simplistic rationale. It takes advantage of a blanket meaning for slavery. There are all kinds of slavery: St Paul says he is a slave (doulos) of God. And knowing that conditions for freedom for individuals in a modern-day bureacracy are in fact worse than conditions for the freedom of slaves. This is why slaves have returned to their masters. So there is some semantic overlap involved.

It also takes advantage of the nature of Scripture, which is not an outline political rights. It is a statement of salvation of the soul, and the resurrection of the body. This means that it's truths are operative during a Holocaust or a pandemic.

The Bible does not condone evil. If there is evil in slavery, the Bible does not condone its evil. So we are pushed to understand the nature of evil. That is perhaps a topic more close at hand.

[CarolinaGuitarman]

"So far the sophistic syllogism has been proposed: (a) slavery is wrong (b) The Bible doesn't say slavery is wrong (c) The Bible condones slavery."

I never said that. Nice try to change my words. I merely said that the Bible doesn't condemn slavery.

"The fallacy in this kind of argument is mostly in its simplistic rationale. It takes advantage of a blanket meaning for slavery. There are all kinds of slavery: St Paul says he is a slave (doulos) of God. And knowing that conditions for freedom for individuals in a modern-day bureacracy are in fact worse than conditions for the freedom of slaves. This is why slaves have returned to their masters. So there is some semantic overlap involved."

When the bible gives instructions on how much you can beat your slave, it is not talking about metaphoric slavery.

[cornelis]

I recommend you take this to the religion forum.

[CarolinaGuitarman]

"I recommend you take this to the religion forum."

I wasn't the one who brought the topic of Christianity and slavery in this thread. Until Elsie pinged me again today about it, I had made only one comment about it, and that was yesterday, after YOU introduced the subject here. :)

[cornelis]

Do you play acoustic or electric?

[CarolinaGuitarman]

"Do you play acoustic or electric?"

Yes.

[farmer18th]

I was particularly interested in the example of the non-mating Primrose; there seems to be, in these, a variation on a theme. A botanist finds something he didn't see before among his list of plant treasures--something new. It's a bit like the reportedly "new" instance of some sort of English milk vetch a few years ago. (Can't remember the name of the plant.) Rather than conclude this was a species that hadn't been catalogued, the evolutionary establishment rushes to believe it's entirely new--micro evolution observed. The theory dictates the observation and the observation MUST conform to the theory.

[cornelis]

I will usually give my vote for Pat Metheny, but there is skill elsewhere. Can't pass up Van Halen. James Olsen makes a very nice acoustic guitar.

[Thatcherite]

Or, a study of evolution as pseudoscience, by your lights.

As evolution is not a pseudoscience such a study would be over in a few seconds. I suppose that it might be instructive to take a class of advanced highschoolers through the detailed reasons why evolution is scientific and ID is not, but I suspect that there are many better uses of limited class time at that level.

[Elsie]

Thanks for making me go into the Book today.

You are RIGHT in saying the Bible does NOT come out against slavery, as it has been, and is being done today.

The book, does, however, point out a WORSE slavery than the mere physical; that being the Spiritual.

THAT slavery is the one Christ was definitely addressing.

THAT slavery will last a REAL long time, compared to the earthly type.

[RunningWolf]

Well cornelis,

Certainly this pseudo intellectual has certainly demonstrated that he is a slave to his obsession on the slavery topic, and will somehow gravitate to it seemingly irregardless of the originating topic may be. Even fantasizes that he has been pinged into the slavery topic, and that someone else brought it to the forum. But as seen here, again this is not the case.

And unless corralled, banjo will now harangue for perhaps hundreds of posts, and stalk posters from thread to thread with the topic of slavery. This will in fact be un-noticed by the forum, but an admin will be sure to watch when the little cultists screams don't post to me!!

But why?? Is it part of a script? Does this elevate the cultist to the other cultists?

Looks to me like science and evo actually have very little to do with their agenda.

Wolf