Congress poised to pass anti-meth law restricting sale of cold medicines (behind store counters)

ap on San Diego Union Tribune ^ | 12/9/05 | Sam Hananel - ap

[NormsRevenge]

WASHINGTON – Cold remedies that can be used by drug dealers to make methamphetamine would be forced behind store counters under legislation Congress is poised to pass by year's end. Lawmakers hope that federal restrictions – included in the agreement reached Thursday to reauthorize the USA Patriot Act – will stem a meth trade that has hit rural America particularly hard.

A number of states have already moved to curb the sale of cold pills containing pseudoephedrine, the ingredient used to cook meth in makeshift labs. The federal law would prevent meth makers from moving to states with weaker laws.

Stores would be required to keep medicines like Sudafed and Nyquil behind the counter and consumers would be limited to 3.6 grams, or about 120 pills, per day and 9 grams, or about 300 pills, a month. Purchasers would also need to show a photo ID and sign a logbook.

Those limits target meth dealers who buy large quantities of the drugs to extract the pseudoephedrine.

The measure is a compromise reached after months of haggling over the 30-day limit. Sens. Jim Talent, R-Mo., and Dianne Feinstein, D-Calif., who pushed the legislation in the Senate, insisted the limit was needed to curb the meth epidemic.

"The heart of this legislation is a strong standard for keeping pseudoephedrine products out of the hands of meth cooks," Feinstein said.

The bill is weaker than one passed by the Senate in September that would have required cold remedies to be sold from the pharmacy counter. That would have prevented many stores without pharmacies, such as convenience stores and some supermarkets, from carrying the pills.

"We're pleased to see the current compromise," said Tim Hammonds, president and CEO of the Food Marketing Institute, which represents grocery stores and other retailers. "It addresses a serious law enforcement concern, but in a way that balances the need for consumer access to safe and effective products."

Hammonds said he was disappointed the federal bill would not pre-empt more restrictive laws in states like Oklahoma and Iowa, where cold remedies are sold from behind pharmacy counters. At least 37 states have enacted laws to restrict the sale of cold medications to starve meth manufacturers of their key ingredient.

Many leading retailers – including Kmart, Walgreens, Target, Wal-Mart – have already adopted guidelines to limit customer access to cold products or to limit their sales.

Some drug makers have changed the ingredients in cold pills to take out pseudoephedrine and replace it with another substance, phenylephrine, that cannot be used to make meth. A new product called Sudafed PE, is already on store shelves, though the old Sudafed is still available.

The measure would provide nearly $100 million a year for five years to train state and local law enforcement to nab meth offenders and would expand funding to prosecute dealers and clean up environmentally toxic meth labs.

Talent called the measure "the toughest anti-meth bill ever considered by Congress." He predicted that it would help reduce the number of clandestine labs where the illegal drug is made with common items like household cleaners and coffee filters.

The meth problem is particularly severe in the Midwest, where rural areas provide cover for the pungent chemical odor from meth labs. In Missouri, law enforcement officers seized more than 2,700 meth labs last year – more than any other state.

Passage of the measure could take place as early as next week, when Republican leaders press for a vote on the anti-terrorism bill. Some opponents who claim Patriot Act threatens civil liberties are threatening a filibuster unless changes are made.

[vrwc0915]

There are two common methods that amatures use
One involves Anhydrous+lithium the other Red Phosphorus and Iodine. Many learn the hard way that AA is hard on the lungs,but they don't get to pass that lesson on to others

[Cheapskate]

You're right on the buck as usual Hank.

thank you so much for sticking to your guns when it comes to liberty!

[Know your rights]

Why don't we just crack down on the people making this crap

I thought conservatives understood that government can't repeal the law of supply and demand. Our last Prohibition caused more problems than it solved; why the drumbeat on FR to continue the current prohibition?

[Know your rights]

a meth lab in the trailer right next to you that could have blown you to bits in your sleep

From what I hear, illegal alcohol stills were also liable to explode; how did we solve that problem?

[4woodenboats]

How long does it take to set up an alchohol still? Are alcohol stills endemic in your neighborhhod? Or are you suggessting we legalize meth labs?

Maybe these labs aren't in your back yard or where you go to recreate - or you just don't know it, but they are the #1 in law enforcement's agenda here. They've been talking about doing this for years, and I'm glad it's finally getting done.

[Know your rights]

Are alcohol stills endemic in your neighborhhod?

No, because they can't compete with legal regulated alcohol producers. Stills, and their associated dangers, were only common when the drug alcohol was illegal.

[Just Lori]

I thought conservatives understood that government can't repeal the law of supply and demand. Our last Prohibition caused more problems than it solved; why the drumbeat on FR to continue the current prohibition?


Conservatives also understand the rule of law. Making meth is illegal. Put the creeps in jail!

[Know your rights]

Making meth is illegal.

Should it be, given that government can't repeal the law of supply and demand, and that our last Prohibition caused more problems than it solved?

[4woodenboats]

Home brewing wine and beer is very common, and quite tasty.

You seem stuck on comparing 2 substances that cannot be considered comparable by the wildest stretch of the imagination along with 2 periods of our nations history during which drug enforcement laws and law enforcement methods are not comparable.

But most incredibly, you are attempting to compare the prohibition of a substance that was legal for tens of centuries worldwide to the crackdown of a substance that has never been legal.

Sorry, but I don't see the merit to your arguments.

[4woodenboats]

I thought that was where you were going. The old "if it's too hard give up" method, eh?

You're in the wrong place if you're looking for white flags, and again, your logic is decidely absent.

[Know your rights]

Home brewing wine and beer is very common, and quite tasty.

Does it account for anywhere near the volume of production during Prohibition? If not, my point stands: substance bans increase unregulated production and the associated dangers.

You seem stuck on comparing 2 substances that cannot be considered comparable by the wildest stretch of the imagination

Their methods of production are rather comparable; how are the other differences you hint at relevant to this discussion?

along with 2 periods of our nations history during which drug enforcement laws and law enforcement methods are not comparable.

What were those differences, and how are they relevant to this discussion?

But most incredibly, you are attempting to compare the prohibition of a substance that was legal for tens of centuries worldwide to the crackdown of a substance that has never been legal.

I'm sure you're wrong about that ... how can a chemical be banned before it's even been synthesized? But although the shorter preceding legality for meth makes it plausible that a ban on meth could be more successful than one on alcohol, I know of no results that support the hypothesis.

[Know your rights]

The old "if it's too hard give up" method, eh?

We "gave up" on alcohol Prohibition ... was that not the conservative thing to do? (Note that Prohbition was a 'progressive' initiative opposed by the conservatives of the day.)

[4woodenboats]

Sorry, pal, but I took a peek at your home page, and I don't give forums to drug pushing TROLLS.

[Fruitbat]

Oh yeah, because pseudoephedrine and meth would NEVER get smuggled in from Mexico in response to this law. /sarcasm

As if we didn't have enough scum bringing illegal products over the border, now we have more incentive for illegals to cross the border, and I get to go jump through hoops when I have allergy or sinus problems or just a cold that is hitting all five members of my family simultaneously.

Or Canada. You can get anything you want up there. They well cough syrup with codeine in it. And I'm not talkin' miniscule amounts either. Two teaspoons of that and you're out like a light shortly thereafter.

[TKDietz]

I'm actually for laws putting pseudoephedrine behind pharmacy counters. These laws have been a good thing for my state. Congress needs to stay out of this though. States should decide whether they want these laws or not. These laws are not going to help with the "superlabs" in Mexico and western states that produce most of the meth consumed in this country. Those guys don't buy their pseudoephedrine at local stores like little small batch tweaker labs do. These laws put a huge dent in these little tweaker labs cooking up a few grams at a time day in and day out. Most of that dope is being consumed by the people cooking it and all of those they need to help them collect the pills and other supplies and help in the process doing things like scraping the red phosphorous off of matchbook strike pads, providing a place to cook, and that sort of thing. These laws will not put any dent in these superlabs cooking up ten pounds or more a day that buy their pseudoephedrine in bulk from illicit sources. These little kitchen labs are more of a local problem and local governments should handle them themselves.

[conservative cat]

Tylenol 3's also (Tylenol with Codeine).

[TKDietz]

"Meth doesn't get smuggled. That's why it's cheap. They're making it in Motel rooms, campers, sheds, barns, trailers, etc. They busted a rolling meth lab a few miles away from here. It's a real problem in the Heartland."

It does too get smuggled. In fact, most of the meth consumed in your town is coming either from Mexico or western states where they have huge labs producing huge quantities of the stuff. How much dope do you think people are cooking up in motels rooms? Why do you think they cook in motel rooms? Are rolling meth labs a good idea for these guys? These guys cooking dope for the most part don't have a pot to pee in. They are junkies and they'll cook dope anywhere they can find a plug in for their hotplate. So many of them are bums with no place to stay and no place to cook their dope. If they where really cooking up tons of the stuff and selling it then more would be able to post bond when they get arrested, instead of seeing the public defender appointed in almost every single one of the lab cases you'd see them hiring fancy expensive lawyers with all of that money they've been making.

I work as a public defender and I deal with a lot of these guys. For the most part they are cooking up a few grams at a time and most of what they are cooking is being used by them and the few people they always have helping them come up with supplies, providing a place to cook, and doing some of the more labor intensive processes required in cooking dope. Our office has been appointed on almost all the meth lab cases in our county, and in just about every case I can think of where a private attorney was hired the only reason one was hired is because the family pitched in to help try to keep the drug addict in the family from going to prison for a long time. A lot of them though never post bond. The jail is pretty full though so we are able to get some pretty good bond reductions and whenever we do have these bond reduction hearings where we are trying to get one of these toothless dope cooking tweakers out I'll warn them that if they are able to make bond the cops will be watching them. Local law enforcement know these guys are addicts and will most likely go right back to cooking dope because they can't afford to buy it. I've warned people several times and so many of these times I've seen them back up in court a few weeks later being arraigned on a new lab case. If they were busted witha "mobile meth lab" that doesn't mean they were high tech, it means they didn't have anywhere else to cook their dope. Generally all "mobile meth lab" means is that they had all of their cooking supplies in the vehicle and maybe some pills soaking in a solvent or something getting ready for the cook. Usually they were going somewhere else to do any actual "cooking," although some have used a $40 power inverter to plug their hotplate into.

Anyway, we've gone from getting several new meth lab cases and cases involving possession of paraphernalia with intent to manufacture meth every month down to getting almost none since our laws passed putting the pseudoehedrine behind pharmacy counters. People aren't doing much dope cooking anymore around here. The occasional bust we do get tends to involve tiny quantities, and there is no way these people were cooking up several batches a week like people used to because they just don't have the steady supply of pseudo they once had.

There is no shortage of meth here though even though very little is being produced locally now. We still get plenty of possession and delivery cases, and still have plenty of clients arrested for other things who have meth addictions. People have to pay for it now though rather than getting it free or dirt cheap like they were when they were cooking it or helping out in the cooks. The stuff in town now is just about all coming from Mexico or states out west. For the most part the people bringing it here are Mexicans. They're the ones generally selling the half ounces, ounces, on up. We see a lot of loads of it coming off the highway. It is not uncommon for our office to be appointed on cases where drug mules were caught with several pounds of it on the highway. Our office probably gets one or two hundred pounds worth of meth cases every year where mules are caught with it on the highway, sometimes more. Private attorneys get a few of these cases too. Most of these mules with the meth are Mexicans. Most loads are just a few pounds, sometimes a few dozen pounds. We get more loads of cocaine often in larger quantities, but of course there are a lot more people who do coke than meth. We get at least a couple of thousand pounds worth of drug mule cases involving pot every year because of course a whole lot more people smoke pot than do either of these other drugs. No doubt law enforcement is only stopping a small percentage from getting through.

Meth labs are a problem in the Heartland and in the South where I live not so much because that is where all the meth is coming from, but because these little labs are supplying lots of free or dirty cheap dope to some of the most hardcore addicts and probably creating a lot of new addicts along the way, not to mention causing all sorts of other collateral problems. These guys cooking the dope are pretty much all hardcore addicts. The people helping them tend to be either people who are already hardcore addicts or people who soon will be hardcore addicts. The labs provide them enough cheap or free dope to stay on huge doses of the stuff pretty much constantly. These people will go for days without sleeping and lose their damned minds. Sometimes they do some really crazy bad stuff that hurts innocent people and our communities in general. If they have kids, God help them. They'll cook it in their homes with their kids and otherwise neglect and abuse these children. They leave big messes that cost taxpayers a lot of money to clean up. Oklahoma calculated that they were spending something like $350,000 per meth lab they busted on clean up, investigations and prosecutions, appointed defense attorneys, court proceedings, prison sentences, medical and dental bills on the people cooking the stuff when they were in prison, all the services provided to children left behind, and on and on and on. It was coming up to something like $10,000,000.00 a month for them before they passed their laws putting the pseudoephedrine behind pharmacy counters. Most meth is smuggled in from somewhere else, but there are still plenty of good reasons to get rid of all these little tweaker labs.

[digger48]

Thanks for that. I had to cede the argument shortly after I posted. I guess we're not hearing much of the big busts here. Lots and lots of users though. All they talk about in jail is cooking and using as soon as they get out. Our little county jails are busting at the seams.

What percentage of these actually turn themselves around?

Some of them seem really fried.

[Know your rights]

I took a peek at your home page, and I don't give forums to drug pushing TROLLS.

What a cowardly evasion.

And for the record: I push freedom, not drugs; and if I was a troll, I doubt I'd still be on FR after a year and a half.

[Just Lori]

Making meth is illegal.

Should it be, given that government can't repeal the law of supply and demand, and that our last Prohibition caused more problems than it solved?

You're actually asking if meth should remain illegal? Are you high?