Posted on 12/09/2005 5:08:08 PM PST by concretebob
The rumor mill started humming Monday morning, Nov. 28, after ABC Radio aired the following report:
FBI and Homeland Security agents spent part of the weekend investigating the report of a possible missile fired at a plane leaving Los Angeles international airport. ABC's Alex Stone has the details.
... the pilots radioed air-traffic controllers saying what appeared to be a rocket had been fired at the aircraft and missed as American Airlines Flight 621 was climbing over the water. It had just taken off from LAX. The plane was enroute to Chicago ... When it landed, FBI agents spoke with the pilots. Sources say those agents now believe it was a flare or a bottle rocket that passed by and they don't think it was any threat to the aircraft.
This report did not run for long, possibly no more than once or twice. Still, thousands of people heard it, and many of those were understandably suspicious when no other major media outlet picked up the story.
Not satisfied with rumors, retired United Airline pilot, Ray Lahr, and aviation audio expert, Glen Schulze, decided to investigate. The pair have been cooperating in Lahr's ongoing Freedom Of Information Act suit in federal court against the CIA and the National Transportation Safety Board regarding the demise of TWA Flight 800. What they have found about the LAX flight is inconclusive, but intriguing, and deserves serious inquiry.
For starters, the flight was AA 612 and not AA 621 as reported. Lahr and Schulze checked its progress using the LAX airport monitor. Those interested in doing the same can enter Nov. 26, 12:49, 20-mile range, and then click on "start."
You will see every airplane aloft in the Los Angeles area on the map. In about a half minute, "AAL612" appears as a green aircraft crossing the shoreline. If you click on the aircraft, it will turn red, and the flight data will appear in a box to the right. Over the next few minutes, the aircraft turns south. At approximately 6,000 feet and off the coast of Redondo Beach, a new target will appear.
"The unidentified target's altitude does some funny things," observes Glenn Schulze, "from a constant 1,500 feet to suddenly showing 7,500 feet where it remains, which is the same altitude as AA FL 612 at this point in AA FL 612's climb-out."
According to Lahr, AA 612 seems "to split and become TWO! It remains TWO for a while, both targets moving together, then they separate, the mirror target fades, and AA 612 (thank God) is alone again, heading slightly south east."
The unidentified target appears for 12 to 13 sweeps of the FAA LAX TRACON radar rotating at a 4.7-second sweep rate. "This target can not be easily explained away as a radar ghost or artifact or swamp gas," adds Schulze, "as it exists and tracks over the ground for almost 50 seconds as it travels along with AA FL 612. Dynamite evidence!"
What makes the evidence particularly compelling is that the pilots apparently saw what the radar was reporting. Those who are interested in the pilot's commentary can go to the following site. The relevant conversation is at the very end of this segment, during the last minute. This conversation takes place several minutes after the incident and alludes to an earlier conversation.
ATC: Flare or a rocket?
AA 612: It looked more like a rocket.
ATC: American 612, how far away was it from your position?
AA 612: It was about half way between us and the coastline when we first called that last center guy.
Whatever the pilot saw prompted enough concern for LAX officials to contact the FBI and the Department of Homeland Security. It also prompted a very serious report on ABC radio.
The most comprehensive reporting on the subject appeared Dec. 3 in an LAX area newspaper called The South Bay Daily Breeze. The headline says it all: "Smoke Trail Wasn't Threat to Plane, Say Investigators."
The article describes what the pilot saw as an "an unusual vapor trail," one that was "at least a mile below the airplane." FBI spokeswoman Laura Eimiller assured the readers that this presumed trail "absolutely posed no threat." This claim would be more reassuring had the FBI not also convinced the reporter that "whatever left the vapor trail did not appear on radar, and the pilot never reported seeing any kind of projectile."
The existing evidence would seem to refute all of those claims. The pilots saw not a vapor trail, but a "flare or a rocket." They saw it when the plane was no higher than 6,000 feet. Anything "at least a mile below them" would likely be swimming. The radar did pick something up, and the pilots considered the event sufficiently alarming to report it.
A veteran Airline Pilots Association safety investigator, Lahr was once much more likely to accept aviation authorities at their word. Having spent the last several years fighting them for information in the federal courts, he has grown increasingly skeptical.
The FBI may have its reason for quieting fears, Lahr understands, but as the distorted investigation of TWA Flight 800 has shown, a pacified population is a vulnerable one.
I don't think there are transcripts on the website, just show notes. You might email Barbara, she is often very accommodating to certain requests from her listeners.
LOL..never heard it put that way but I'll remember it.
There are some FReepers that can be relied on for good factual information. However it's the interpretation of those facts that leads to some pretty interesting discussion. In this case I don't think it's unreasonable to allow the possibility for a case of "evil intent" and that someone who argues that position is not just a conspiratorial nut case.
Certainly. But in earlier cases, it clearly was more than a smoldering cigar.
In this case it's much too soon to tell, but it is certainly evident that the FBI is either lying or stupid, with these silly stories about bottle rockets and deliberate misrepresentations of the plane's altitude at the time of the incident.
In other words, the FBI has proven itself to be unreliable more times than I can count. I just don't trust them to tell the truth. Ruby Ridge, Waco, OKC, TWA 800, the list goes on and on. And it's the same corrupt FBI now that it was under clinton.
What that means is that an FBI statement is worth about zero. If you are concerned to know the truth, you have to look at the evidence, such as it is.
************************************************************
verity- you really should go see the doctor to get something to help you get rid of the clap.
Thanks, I forgot OKC and the football bench bomber.
bump
I suppose we can argue whether it's corrupt or not but there is NO argument that it is the same FBI as the clinton FBI.
And that's the major problem.. it makes no difference what the administration may be at the top levels. The FBI, CIA, State Dept, ad infinitum are their own ingrain entities and yes, their track record is suspect.
ROTFLMAO
Also, the names have slipped my mind at the moment, but their ludicrous pursuit of the wrong men in the Olympics bombing and the anthrax mailings. I don't think they were stupid; I think they do this sort of thing on purpose, especially in the anthrax case.
There are three or four ties between the anthrax mailings and Muslim terrorists. Those have been ignored. But you can bet the FBI knows about them as well as we do.
So, not every accident is a terrorist incident. But you can't rule out a suspicious accident on the basis of FBI testimony; it just can't be trusted.
You don't need a tinfoil hat to understand what Lahr is getting at. Another Naval maneuver almost gone bad? Almost as bad as TWA 800?
Those people aboard AA 612 don't know how lucky they are.
bttt
Hey Rock, I thought you might get a kick out of this.
Uh, Keith?
Seeing as Rokke is younger, ugly, Air Force, Married and Employed, you've got quite the imagination.
Your's truly is older, pretty, Navy, Single, and Retired.
I respect the Rock, because while Air Force, he and I know some of the same dudes, and he is a reasonable person, while I (like you) lean towards the a-hole side of life.
Is 'Fedscum' even a word?
Do you know any perfect people or organizations?
Do you sleep well?
But, I gotta give it to you, you managed to insult me and Rokke in the same sentence. That takes skill.
And Merry Christmas to you!
and
Here's a little challange for you...point our something I've said on this thread that is wrong. And then tell me again whose got their head up their ass.
Come on Pukin. How many times to I have to remind you that I learned all my charm during my four years at the Naval Academy. It was all downhill from there.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.