Theory of intelligent design making its way into Broward textbooks (Florida)

Sun-sentinel.com ^ | December 9, 2005 | Chris Kahn

[mlc9852]

Broward County on Thursday narrowed its choices for high school Biology I textbooks to two finalists, both of which have been under scrutiny by Christian conservatives who want to change the way students learn about the origin of life.

Both have edited passages about evolution theory during the past few years after receiving complaints from the Discovery Institute. The think tank sponsors research on intelligent design, which argues life is so complicated, it must have been fashioned by a higher being. One of the books also has added a short section on creationism.

[highball]

Oh, a psychiatrist AND a scientist! I'm impressed!

Hey, nothing to it. If you're going to make it that easy.... ;-)

[ml1954]

The natural state of affairs for the universe, as far as I am concerned, is for all the elements to disintegrate into NOTHING.

Fester, I never would have thought you had nihilistic tendencies.

[highball]

But the Bible as written, no matter how you try to phrase it, is always 'interpreted'...I have seen discussions on FR, on religious threads where the meaning of the word 'all', 'rock', 'brother', 'sister', 'whosoever', and on and on is always in dispute as to the intended meaning...its always, always being 'interpreted'...

So in this context, you saying that you believe in the Bible as written, is really meaningless...

Good point.

How many people who believe that every word of the Bible is literally true have read it in the original?

It's a great book, and a wonderful guide to being a better person. Isn't that enough? Why some people think that it's also a science textbook is beyond me.

[VadeRetro]

Unfortunately, the new species had the root of a cabbage and the leaf of a radish, and therefore had no commercial value.

Something about that just hits me funny.

[mlc9852]

I don't think people have a problem with small adaptations - those are obviously observable. I have a problem with we were descended from ape-like creatures that no longer exist.

[mlc9852]

Then I am proud to be ignorant and believe God is the creator of all life.

[metmom]

From your account, though, it seems that they still only got legs and antenna; no new structures or functions. Taking a fruit fly and rearranging it like a Mr. Potatohead can be amusing but it doesn't really show evolution. And besides, I doubt any of THOSE changes were beneficial.

[metmom]

Thanks for the links. I was not much involved with FR at that time so of course didn't see them.

[ml1954]

Then I am proud to be ignorant and believe God is the creator of all life.

Why would anyone be proud to be ignorant? I'm not exactly sure how it works, but I suspect the martyrdom club doesn't accept applications from the dumb.

[furball4paws]

Well, I'm glad we found you funny bone.

[CarolinaGuitarman]

The errors in the link you are posted are too many to list in their entirety, but I will address a few.

"Fruit fly generations have been studied longer than the presumed time man has been on earth."

Nonsense. They have been studied for about 100 years. Extrapolating by generations does not change the fact that the time studied is still 100 years.

"All in all, scientists have been able to "catalyze the fruit fly evolutionary process, such that what has been seen to occur in Drosophila is the equivalent of the many millions of years of normal mutations and evolution."

Hogwash. The affects of high powered X-rays and other mutagens has changed the mutations not just in quantity but in quality. These are mutations that almost never occur naturally. Most mutations are far smaller, and have far less affect on the phenotype. Most are neutral, the few that are detrimental almost always result in a very early death. There are some beneficial ones too.

""Even with this tremendous speedup of mutations, scientists have not been able to come up with anything other than another fruit fly."

This assumes that induced speciation was the goal of the experiments. It wasn't.

"*Jeremy Rifkin, Algeny (1983),"

This is the quoted author of the above? Do you KNOW who this nutjob is? lol Do a google search and enlighten yourself.

Read a genetics text and come back to us.

[megatherium]

From your account, though, it seems that they still only got legs and antenna; no new structures or functions. Taking a fruit fly and rearranging it like a Mr. Potatohead can be amusing but it doesn't really show evolution. And besides, I doubt any of THOSE changes were beneficial.

They weren't trying to prove evolution with these experiments. They were trying to figure out how the genetic machinery for animal body plans work. They succeeded -- they discovered how the "homeobox" genes operate. These turn out to be small in number. This has big implications for evolution, because it shows that it takes small changes in the genome to create substantial changes in the shape of an animal -- small changes that the process of evolution can effect.

[metmom]

"All else, including the origin of our galaxy, solar system, planet and life is the result of the 'laws of nature' that accompanied the start of the universe."

But where did the "laws of nature" come from? What could have been the cause of these laws that result in such order?

[js1138]

I would like to see a proposal from creationists for a methodology that would enable us to include the supernatural in science. Within that proposal I would like to see a dry run experiment where the steps in the methodology are applied to some imaginary scientific investigation.

Duke University ran, for a couple of decades, a laboratory dedicated to finding evidence for the paranormal -- not exactly God, but definitely supernatural. The best thing you can say about the program is that as experimental procedures were tightened up, the phenomena diminished, eventually to nothing.

[js1138]

Your God isn't even available to me.

[Sun]

"I am always amused when creationists/IDists attack evolution, but accept the Germ Theory of Disease and run to the doctor for every tummy ache."

Really?

And who runs to the doctor more - IDers or evos?

Have any kind of link or poll on that?

[Sun]

This just might be my favorite part from the article:

"Students should study Darwin theory not as dogma, but look at it as a theory," he said. "And they should also understand criticisms against it."

Yep, evo is dogma, alright.

[brightforestway]

"Fruit fly generations have been studied longer than the presumed time man has been on earth."

Nonsense. They have been studied for about 100 years. Extrapolating by generations does not change the fact that the time studied is still 100 years.

If you didn't comprheend that part of the thing you probably should give up and just stick with evolution. The basic ideas of ID is simple enough for most people, but not that simple.

[dread78645]

PatrickHenryDidit placemark

[PatrickHenry]

That link wasn't the best. Try this: Yo-God God Detector.