[JSDude1]

Not, or have you ever heard that there is evidence that "all of North America was once covered with water"- It's just misinterpreted by evolutionists to be a "shallow sea", then there's that point of order that there have "even been fossils" found on the top of everest; other tall mountains..

plus the evidence for a food in the middle east, that is so famous-once again misinterpreted by naturalists to say that it was a "local flood", plus the fact that pretty much every major ancient civilzation has a world-flood type story in their history...

[Oztrich Boy]

Not, or have you ever heard that there is evidence that "all of North America was once covered with water"-

Oh, dear.

[narby]

all of North America was once covered with water

The creation scientists stopped trying to verify a young earth, or Noah's flood about 50 years ago. The last two scientists to attempt to find such proof gave up, and abandoned creationism in the 50's.

Not even the Discovery Institute, which has promoted Intelligent Design for years, does not even attempt to claim that either a young earth or Noah's flood occurred.

There is one other possibility though. God is a liar. He either lied when he wrote the Bible, or lied when he manipulated the physical evidence on earth (and the light from stars) to make it appear old when it is not.

And I suppose one other possibility, God doesn't exist and the Bible was written by a bunch of scientific know-nothings. That's the option I prefer.

And further. You need to understand when Christian Fundamentalists attempt to force the teaching of ID in public schools, there will be a huge fight with the 75% of the population that doesn't believe in literal translations of the Bible. The second issue brought up in that discussion is the question of whether God exists at all, as we have come to here.

I want you to think about this: Many bright believing fundamentalist young people exposed to the evidence for old earth and evolution will conclude as I did, that the Bible is a lie, and God does not exist. Knowing that, maybe ID is a subject left to church, and opposing science is not a good thing for religious people to do. After all, the Catholic church, after their disastrous experience with Galileo now has no problem with evolution, and goes out of it's way to affirm that Catholic doctrine does not contradict science, because they believe God created the science, therefore it cannot be "wrong". If fundamentalists had brains, that would be their doctrine as well.

[Coyoteman]

Not, or have you ever heard that there is evidence that "all of North America was once covered with water"- It's just misinterpreted by evolutionists to be a "shallow sea", then there's that point of order that there have "even been fossils" found on the top of everest; other tall mountains..

plus the evidence for a food [sic] in the middle east, that is so famous-once again misinterpreted by naturalists to say that it was a "local flood", plus the fact that pretty much every major ancient civilzation [sic] has a world-flood type story in their history...

None of which is evidence.

The date of the flood is given as:

2252 BC -- layevangelism.com

2304 BC -- Answers in Genesis (+/- 11 years).

2350 BC -- Morris, H. Biblical Creationism. Grand Rapids, MI: Baker Books, 1993.

At this time, there is a continuous archaeological and written record in Egypt. The earliest pyramids were built beginning about 2630 BC; there is no evidence they were underwater, nor is there any mention in the writings of such a flood.

Where I work, in the western US, we have residential sites occupied before, during, and after these dates. There is continuity in the stratigraphy, fauna and flora (e.g., pollen records), dating, culture change, etc. No way it could have been totally disrupted and leave no evidence.

We have evidence of a migration by early populations down the Pacific Coast from Alaska to the tip of South America, tracked by mutations in Haplogroup A, over a period of 11,000 years. By finding and testing skeletal remains along this route for mtDNA, scientists have been able to track the route of the migration via new mutations. This is all pretty new data, and it does not allow time for complete extinction of people in this area followed by replacement populations from the eastern Mediterranean. That would make a continuity in mtDNA impossible, but we have continuity. There is a whole industry growing up to trace people's ancestry through DNA, and they use the observed fact that populations were moving about in North American many thousands of years before the date given for the flood as part of their technique.