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Doors close on bus case - Technicality frees Arvada woman who refused to show ID
Rocky Mountain News ^ | December 8, 2005 | Karen Abbott

Posted on 12/08/2005 8:55:00 AM PST by JTN

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To: InsureAmerica
get with it dan. No need to be an ass, unless that is how you conduct debate.

When I read writings like the example below, I come to no other conclusion but that the writer is ignorant:

"We should never under any circumstances show ID's because of our right to not show ID's as written in the constitution (I forget again where is the ID thing written there?) "

141 posted on 12/08/2005 10:34:16 AM PST by Ol' Dan Tucker (Karen Ryan reporting...)
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To: Leatherneck_MT

yep, thats what I hope too. It will drive more traffic to her website. good for her.


142 posted on 12/08/2005 10:34:34 AM PST by InsureAmerica (Evil? I have many words for it. We are as dust, to them. - v v putin)
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To: InsureAmerica
Recent history, Where have terrorists been most successful, embassies, pentagon, attempt at the white house, etc

No recent history tells us that civilian targets have sustained the largest number of deaths in a terrorist attack. Not to mention the economic impact. What happened to the WTC, filled with many thousands of civilians, was far worse than any other attack, anywhere. I feel the Federal government should be just as concerned about security of civilians as much as they are for their own facilities. With millions of unidentified people entering this country illegally, on a regular basis, they are clearly not.

143 posted on 12/08/2005 10:34:34 AM PST by Jigsaw John
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To: Ol' Dan Tucker

you're problem is you extract a sentence from the context of the whole and use it to create something that did not exist for the purpose of your argument. sort of like the msm does.


144 posted on 12/08/2005 10:36:05 AM PST by InsureAmerica (Evil? I have many words for it. We are as dust, to them. - v v putin)
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To: InsureAmerica; All

It's been good, but a man's gotta get some work done. I respect everyone's opinion here, its good to debate.

Take care.


145 posted on 12/08/2005 10:38:15 AM PST by InsureAmerica (Evil? I have many words for it. We are as dust, to them. - v v putin)
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To: ican'tbelieveit
For police state examples, Hitler's Germany comes to mind. He didn't one day slaughter all of the Jews. He gradually encouraged the public sentiments to his way. Got the kids into his "public education."

Exactly right.

146 posted on 12/08/2005 10:43:25 AM PST by Ol' Dan Tucker (Karen Ryan reporting...)
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To: InsureAmerica; Heyworth
you're problem is you extract a sentence from the context of the whole and use it to create something that did not exist for the purpose of your argument. sort of like the msm does.

Okay. Please explain why the right to not show an ID isn't in the Constitution.

147 posted on 12/08/2005 10:47:57 AM PST by Ol' Dan Tucker (Karen Ryan reporting...)
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To: JeffAtlanta
She is on a public bus and is not getting off on the property. If the facility is to be secured, then it should not allow public transportation to use the property as a shortcut.

People are using the public transportation to reach that facility. It's not a shortcut, it's a stop on the bus route. That stop obviously suits other passengers needs, it that stop makes the bus route unacceptable to her, she shouldn't ride on that bus.

Public transportation is for all the public. They have to come up with a policy that meets the majority of the publi's needs. It is not their responsibility to meet every individual's specific needs.

There's apparently a need for public transporation to the facility. They can also provide trasportation to other areas on the loop with a single bus, but it requires you to show identification since you're entering a government facility even if you never leave the bus.

If that is unacceptable to you. Don't use the bus.

148 posted on 12/08/2005 10:49:51 AM PST by untrained skeptic
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To: untrained skeptic

Actually, the route transits the facility. Not all riders on the bus are going to get off at the facility. And the local park and ride is just on the other side.


149 posted on 12/08/2005 10:53:40 AM PST by ican'tbelieveit
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To: JTN
In the Federal facility near-by where I live, you are required to provide a photo ID to gain entry. There are usually three federal Officers at the entrance. No photo ID means no entry. Period. Those people are turned away and directed to leave property. They are monitored until such time that they have indeed left. Some are escorted off.

End of story.

150 posted on 12/08/2005 10:55:36 AM PST by tenthirteen
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To: JTN
She then spent several days telling the officers she didn't have her ID with her and wasn't getting off the bus in the Federal Center anyway. Officers eventually told her she had to bring her ID or she couldn't ride the bus.

Interesting.

Supposed to have ID for "security purposes", but just say "oh, I forgot" and it's ok just don't forget next time.

Uh-huh.

Charges dropped on a "technicality" - sounds like she would have won, and they can't stand for that. New policy: drag each no-ID person to court, then drop the charges just before the rider wins - don't have to win the case, just have to harass people into compliance by making it too expensive via "press charges, then drop them". Methinks the court should (perhaps) have the option of saying "you pressed charges, you can't drop them just because you might lose."

151 posted on 12/08/2005 10:56:39 AM PST by ctdonath2
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To: L98Fiero
Strange how so many on this forum support this "Mother Sheehan" wanna-be.

Strange how so many on this forum support the 4th Amendment and want the feds to obey it.

152 posted on 12/08/2005 10:57:44 AM PST by ctdonath2
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To: FreedomCalls
Now you're calling her "dangerous"? Based on what? Did they find a bomb on her?

I did not call her dangerous. I said she created a situation that could have been dangerous.

This wasn't her first trip on that bus. She knew she was going to be asked for ID. When she told them previously that she had left if at home, she was told that she would have to present it next time.

The job of those officers is to look for dangerous people that are trying to harm the public. She created a confrontation with them. That's just plain stupid.

Confrontations have a way of growing beyond our intentions. Sometimes confrontations are necessary. This one definately was not.

153 posted on 12/08/2005 11:01:05 AM PST by untrained skeptic
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To: Ol' Dan Tucker

It is

Right here

Amendment IV

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.


154 posted on 12/08/2005 11:04:59 AM PST by Leatherneck_MT (3-7-77 (No that's not a Date))
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To: JTN
"Looking at that ID, having that initial contact with an individual, does allow us to know that that person is who they say they are," she said.

Asked how officers know a person's ID is genuine, she said, "We have trained professionals doing that work."

Who are you?

This is a bunch of crap! You can call yourself by any name you wish. In some sections of Los Angeles you can even get an official Drivers License with your chosen name boldly displayed thereon. The volume of the unofficial distribution of these real documents often exceeds that of the state printing office. If you get one, just be sure that you do not try to renew it at the DMV when it expires. The DMV in California is totally messed up when it comes to document control.

How do I know? Several years ago I presented myself for examination prior to renewing my license. This was during the time when they were installing the new automatic photo system. For some reason they chose to have me come in several weeks later to redo the photo. That triggered an avalanche of licenses. before it was over and without any help from me, I received a total of 5 licenses. Each had the same serial number, all had different pictures and three had my last name spelled different.

I really have to take exception to this BS of depending upon a piece of paper to tell someone else who I am.

Semper Fi

155 posted on 12/08/2005 11:05:06 AM PST by An Old Man (USMC 1956 1960)
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To: Leatherneck_MT

"unreasonable searches and seizures"

Key word: Unreasonable.


156 posted on 12/08/2005 11:18:47 AM PST by InsureAmerica (Evil? I have many words for it. We are as dust, to them. - v v putin)
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To: InsureAmerica

Yes unreasonable

and it is unreasonable.


157 posted on 12/08/2005 11:19:23 AM PST by Leatherneck_MT (3-7-77 (No that's not a Date))
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To: InsureAmerica
Under which scenario (and please be honest) is there more likelihood of stopping the threat???

Neither.

Bomber gets on bus, waves ID (easy enough to get one, legit or fake), gets in, blows up. How did checking ID help?

The problem, repeatedly explained and repeatedly ignored, is that the only thing the ID check does in this scenario is ensure that someone has an ID. Unless the ID is checked as being FOR THE FACILITY, or CHECKED AGAINST A TO-ENTER LIST, checking an ID only serves to show that someone gave this person an ID.

If someone is that determined to cause that much trouble, they'll get something that will sufficiently pass as an ID.

158 posted on 12/08/2005 11:20:18 AM PST by ctdonath2
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To: ctdonath2

ID checker notices something suspicious, document seems not quite right, there IS no document, subject seems nervous, dress not appropriate for time/place/weather, ID reques and inspection allows close-up face to face eye contact, subject panics, etc., etc., etc. No ID check, 100% chance none of the above will happen.

If said bomber 'waved' ID, then it wasn't checked. Is this what you meant? Seems you are slanting your example to suit an agenda. How about bomber doesn;t 'wave' ID, bomber has ID checked, is asked for 2nd ID, is questioned, etc.


159 posted on 12/08/2005 11:26:49 AM PST by InsureAmerica (Evil? I have many words for it. We are as dust, to them. - v v putin)
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To: Leatherneck_MT

to someone with bad intent, absolutely it is unreasonable.


160 posted on 12/08/2005 11:28:11 AM PST by InsureAmerica (Evil? I have many words for it. We are as dust, to them. - v v putin)
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