Bush Plan: Social Security for 'Legalized' Illegal Aliens

CNSNews.com ^ | December 08, 2005 | Jeff Johnson

[jackbenimble]

(CNSNews.com) - Illegal aliens who work under borrowed, stolen or fraudulent Social Security numbers could collect retirement benefits based on their illegal earnings as the result of a Bush administration plan. Critics charge the federal government has grossly underestimated the cost of the proposal, which they believe could run be billions of dollars per year.

Congress is expected to vote on some combination of proposed changes to immigration laws as early as next week, according to sources working with the House Homeland Security and Judiciary committees. While members have not been able to reach agreement on the details of a temporary or "guest worker" program advocated by President Bush, the White House might use the legislative opportunity to seek approval for an International Social Security Agreement with Mexico, something it has wanted for more than two years.

Mark Kirkorian, executive director of the Center for Immigration Studies, told Cybercast News Service that the arrangements, usually called "totalization agreements," with industrialized countries like Canada, the United Kingdom and even France are beneficial. But those benefits, he argued, would not come from an agreement with Mexico.

"The point to a totalization agreement is for two advanced countries that occasionally send corporate transferees from one country to the next for a two or three year stint to be able to reconcile their respective retirement systems," Kirkorian said. "It's not for a third world country that sends millions of peasants into a developed country to take advantage of; there's a complete mismatch, an imbalance."

Kirkorian points out a number of differences between the U.S. and Mexican Social Security systems including:

Workers are vested in the U.S. system in 10 years versus 24 years in Mexico;

The U.S. pays greater benefits to lower income workers whereas Mexico pays out only the premiums paid in, plus accrued interest; and

Most Mexican workers avoid their country's Social Security system by working in the "underground economy," while most U.S. workers have Social Security taxes automatically collected from their wages.

The U.S. has entered into totalization agreements with 20 countries since 1978. The Social Security Administration (SSA) describes the arrangements on its website:

"[These] agreements have two main purposes. First, they eliminate dual Social Security taxation -- the situation that occurs when a worker from one country works in another country and is required to pay Social Security taxes to both countries on the same earnings," the SSA site explains. "Second, the agreements help fill gaps in benefit protection for workers who have divided their careers between the United States and another country."

Congress does not have to give approval for the totalization agreements, but lawmakers are given the opportunity to vote them down. SSA Commissioner Jo Anne Barnhart explained the benefits of totalization for U.S. employers and employees during her Sept. 11, 2003 testimony to the House Judiciary Subcommittee on Immigration, Border Security and Claims.

"Without totalization the combined Social Security tax rate that U.S. employers and employees working in foreign countries must pay often approaches 40 percent or more of total payroll," Barnhart testified.

In March of 2003, the SSA's Office of the Chief Actuary estimated that a totalization agreement with Mexico would cost the U.S. $78 million in the first year, growing to $650 million (in constant 2002 dollars) by 2050. That determination assumed that the initial number of newly eligible Mexican recipients would be equal to the 50,000 beneficiaries then living in Mexico, and that the eligible number would grow to only 300,000 over the next 48 years.

But the agency now known as the Government Accountability Office (GAO) GAO report disputed that estimate.

"[T]his proxy figure does not directly consider the estimated millions of current and former unauthorized workers and family members from Mexico and appears small in comparison with those estimates," the GAO determined. "The estimate also inherently assumes that the behavior of Mexican citizens would not change and does not recognize that an agreement could create an additional incentive for unauthorized workers to enter the United States to work and maintain documentation to claim their earnings under a false identity."

Kirkorian believes those would be the unintended consequences of the president's proposed "guest worker" program.

"If the president gets his way and [those illegal aliens are] legalized, and he submits this totalization agreement to Congress," Kirkorian warned, "then all of the illegal aliens who get this 'amnesty' that he wants, get to count all of their Social Security payments when they were illegal toward their eventual retirement."

Barnhart told the congressional subcommittee that such an outcome could not happen.

"As is the case with our existing agreements, a totalization agreement with Mexico would not alter current law on this issue," Barnhart testified. "Totalization agreements do not have any effect on the prohibition against payment of benefits to illegal aliens in the United States."

But if Congress approves the president's "guest worker" plan, the "adjusted" status of previously illegal employees would mean that they would no longer be excluded from eligibility for Social Security payments.

"What they want is for illegal aliens who 'adjust' to some kind of legal status to be able to count their illegal work toward Social Security," Kirkorian said. "That's not up for contention, that's just a fact. The Social Security Administration negotiated the agreement, already, with Mexico."

A March 2003 report by the Social Security Administration's Office of the Inspector General (SSA-OIG) validates Kirkorian's concern.

"SSA's practice allows non-citizens to work illegally in the U.S. economy for a number of years, eventually acquire a valid SSN and have these earnings posted to their valid SSNs, and then receive [Social Security] benefits as a result of those earnings," the inspector general reported. "SSA does not consider the work-authorization status of the individual when they earned the wages; it only considers whether the individual can prove he or she paid Federal Insurance Contribution Act (FICA) taxes as part of this work."

Data from the 2000 Census indicate that 9.1 million Mexican citizens are living in the United States, 4.8 million of them illegally. The SSA-OIG report speculated about the impact that those illegal aliens could have if they became eligible for U.S. Social Security benefits.

"If these Mexican non-citizens are also working in the United States illegally, and an amnesty and/or totalization agreement occurs," the report warned, "SSA potentially may need to reinstate a large volume of [Social Security taxes paid under false or fraudulent account numbers] based on earlier unauthorized work."

Marti Dinerstein, president of Immigration Matters, also criticized the SSA in a September 2004 report entitled "Social Security 'Totalization' - Examining a Lopsided Agreement with Mexico," for using Canada as the model for its Mexican totalization cost estimates.

"The estimated number of Canadians living in the United States is 820,000," Dinerstein wrote. "Given the fact that a totalization agreement would cover not just Mexican workers but also their spouses and dependents, it is highly likely that over time, potentially millions of people would receive U.S. Social Security benefits and the cost would be in the billions of dollars."

"It's pretty ludicrous, frankly," Kirkorian concluded. "Mexico is just not the kind of country that you should be having this kind of agreement with."

The White House did not return calls seeking comment for this article.

[Final Authority]

BTW, what is happening in USA today happened in Germany in the late '20s leading up to the rise of nationalism (NAZI party) and Hitler. Michael Savage and others have briefly spoken to this. Truly, we need Hitler-lite, not the man, but the movement, in order to bring an understanding of what it will take to avoid national suicide and do what is required to preserve that which we have left.

The tipping point may be when we realize that we truly have such a high national debt that must be paid off in lowering our standard of living. When we live day to day seeking fuel to heat our home, food to feed our family, when we plan not a generation at a time, but day to day in order to survive. That is what Germany was during the depression and what we could experience notwithstanding the fiscal controls and management exerted by the Fed. If (when) the markets crash and and the balance is tipped there is no telling what may transpire.

[jackbenimble]

The fact is: Social Security (feds) already confiscated those funds. "Jose" can never draw that S.S. on a stolen or fraudulent card number. that card is used to get employment.

Since 1986, there has been one huge amnesty and seven mini-amnesties. Millions of illegal aliens have had their status adjusted from illegal to permanent resident and citizen.

The fact is that it has been the practice of the Social Security Administration to retroactively give these millions of former illegals credit for monies paid into Social Security using fake and fraudulent social security numbers if they could document those payments with check stubs.

There is no reason to believe that this practice will not continue if President Bush succeeds with his Shamnesty for millions more illegals and it would be specifically required by the Totalization agreement that President Bush's Administration has executed with Mexico and which this article suggests may soon be submitted to Congress for ratification.

[kellynla]

What is it with Bush and the illegals???
what part of "illegal" doesn't Bush comprehend?
hellooooooooooooooo...

DAMN!
secure the ports & borders, deport the illegals, fine employers who hire illegals and MOVE ON!

[Final Authority]

I have written about the triangulation going on between the parties especially during the debates over whom should sit on the supreme court. So many cool-aide GOP drinkers think GWB has them in his interests with respect to the abortion issue but the abortion issue is precisely an issue that the parties do not wish to quiet or solve, to agree on, or to come to some middle ground. GWB will never place on the supreme court anybody who will vote with the majority to overturn Roe because doing so will quiet all of those pro-life money contributors who have been in the GOP corner. If it wasn't for abortion many voters could consider a third party, as a third party candidate, like Perot, would need to take a neutral position on abortion to garner enough support to be competitive. Take away the abortion issue and see the rise of a national third party.

[jackbenimble]

Look at every vote in the senate the last few years on immigration and then tell me the two parties are the same.

Half of the new Border Patrol Agents and almost all of the new detention beds that you are trying to give President Bush credit for were funded as a result of an amendment to the Iraq War Supplemental Funding Bill by Robert Byrd and supported unanimously be every single Democrat in the Senate. Just barely enough Republicans voted for that amendment to get it passed.

When you look back through the list of all the things that you disingenuously give President Bush credit for with respect to protecting the border you find that he opposed most of them and only accepted them when they were rammed down his throat by Congress and by public outrage. We have good reason to be distrustful of the Bush Administration on this issue.

[Plutarch]

Furthermore, this applies only to illegals from Mexico, not those from other Latin American countries and Asia.

Small comfort, in that Mexico is the source of the majority of illegals.

Furthermore, this will benefit Americans working in Mexico much more than it will benefit Mexican illegals working in the US.

Right. This is being done to address the plight of Americans working in Mexico.

Furthermore, if this is so egregious, why does the US have similar agreements with other nations and why don't you advocate the discontinuing of these agreements that we have with other nations?

Maybe Mexico is different in that they have more than 10 million of their Citizens living/working here illegally?

This nothing more than phony-balonly from the far right wingnuts.

Freepers do not call Freepers "far-right", except as a complement. Careful, lest you be exposed.

[johnmecainrino]

Dems would have voted against the real id act if frist hadn't put it on an iraq funding bill.

Dems were against the wall that was extended south of san diego. The dem rep next to duncan hunter's district fought him on that.

All but 2 senate dems voted against more border patrol last session in the senate. All but 2 voted against more detainee beds.


Bill Clinton was against the predator drones we are using.

Thanks to the Bill Clinton's supreme court picks we have affirmative action for illegals in universities.

Bill Clinton didn't end the catch and release for non mexicans bush did.

Bill Clinton returned them right across the border while bush wants to return them inland.


It is republicans who are proposing changes. Miller of michigan wants to change the census to not include illegals. Dems are fighting her.

Sensennbrenner has legislation to punish employers.

Duncan Hunter wants to extend the fence.

A republican rep wants to end the anchor baby laws.

Dems are against Kyl's plan for 10,000 more border agents.


Hillary and the dems voted for amnesty for illegals in the ag bill.

Hillary goes to La Raza saying she wants u.s taxpayers to pay for in tuition for illegals. Dems want in state tuition for illegals.

Dem governors are blocking id legislation at the polls to deter illegals from voting.

Dem governor of arizona vetoed legislation that would have hurt illegals.


The dem party lead by Dean calls anyone a racist that brings up the ilelgals issue.


Name the dems that are against illegals. Kerry, Dean, Kennedy, Durbin, Boxer, Hillary who.

The gop has duncan hunter, candice miller, tancredo, mike pence, sensennbrenner, delay just to name some that are pushing this issue. The dems are united to keep illegals voting for them.

Look who Corzine just picked pro illegal Menendez.


It is amazing that you would praise the party of Dean that calls anyone that goes after illgals a racist.

[johnmecainrino]

Dems just last session in the senate voted against more detainee beds. All but two of them voted against more detainnee beds. KKK Byrd is not the common Rat.

The Dem party of today is lead by liberal moonbat Pelosi, Ted Kennedy, Durbin, Schumer, Kerry, Hillary, Dean.

The dem party wants to make illegals have permanent amnesty.

You like the dem party so much vote for them.

[B4Ranch]

"I don't understand what people have against Bush on the borders. "

Because you don't have a clear picture about HOW the president is NOT fulfilling these promises!

"He is for predator drones on the border which Clinton was against. "

Yet he permits the FAA to make very stringent rules about predator drones on the border, enough so that they cannot be effective, therby not having any effect whatsoever!

"Bush has just ended the catch and release policy that was allowed under clinton of non mexicans that were within 100 miles of the border."

This is like saying, if I catch a thief in the garage at the edge of my property (within 100 miles of the border.) then I can call the police but if he makes it into my house (more than 100 miles from the border) then I can't! Not very effective is it?

"Bush has added 3,000 border patrol."

Promising to add 3,000 border patrol and adding 3,000 border patrol are two different things.

"Bush has added detainee beds."

Not a one has been constructed yet.

Bush signed the real id act into law which the dems opposed."

The real id act is what communists have in their country, a free republic shouldn't!

"Bush has called for congress to pass legislation to speed up the deportation hearings."

Called for or whispered?

"Bush signed into law completing the fence south of san diego which the dems opposed."

Oh whoop dee doo. A couple of miles of fence is such an accomplishment. It hasn't been built yet!

"Under Bush the illegals caught in Mexico get sent back inland to their towns instead of right across the border which Clinton did and they would cross right back again."

They have to ask to be returned to their home cities! If a guy says he's from Nuevo Laredo instead of Mexico City then he gets returned to Nuevo Laredo not Mexico City.

"Republicans are also pushing for a change in the census laws, employer laws, and in state tuition laws."

not a damn one of these things is meant to be effective, NOT ONE!

"Bush has done everything he could have. The constitution bars federal troops on the border. The dems will fillabuster anything that will really hurt their illegal votes."

Have you ever read the Constitution? I mean every word of it? Did you comprehend all of it? Posse Commitatus is what forbids the use of troops AGAINST AMERICAN CITIZENS NOT FOREIGNERS and that can be cured with one Executive Order. These are foreigners that we're talking about not AMERICAN CITIZENS.

"Bush has done far more than Bill Clinton ever did."

You are a sincere dreamer. The President has done more to keep the invasion alive than stop it.

"Bush's guest worker program is dead on arrival in the house."

GOP (Leadership) forms strategy to OK guest workers (Sneak In Amnesty???) Do you want to believe the truth? NO, YOU DON"T!

"I don't understand all this talk about his program when the house said they won't vote for it."

Congressional chicanery about H-1B visas Because you don't have a clear picture about HOW the President is NOT fulfilling these promises! Promising to do something and then not funding it is saying I don't want it. Promising to do something and then saying OK I'll fund it over the next 10 years is saying I don't want it.

Somewhere somebody must have a picture of the President and some little fat boy. The last thing he is doing is trying to be effective at stopping this invasion and if you open your eyes, realize that he is lying to us that's when you might see the facts.

"I am totally against illegals but one of the reasons some are for the guest worker program for the 25 million illegals here is that it will get them out of the shadows so we can get info on them and deport them."

Require parents to show birth certificates or citizenship papers at the local schools and you'll catch 80% of them. Make that requirement and we would have more empty classrooms than you can believe. The rest of the illegals can be caught by using the SAVE Program.

"What we really need are local police to start arresting illegals. We need local police to crack down on day labor centers. We also need governors to take a strong stand like Kilgore would have done. We need governors to use the national guard on their borders. Federal troops can't use law enforcement in the u.s so the governors are the ones that have the power to use the national guard on the border. "

"Bush has done everything he possibly could on the borders."

BULLSH!T! He is doing everything he can to hinder the effectiveness of the Border Patrol.

"People that blame Bush deserve what Bill Clitnon was doing."

I am to the point where I'll take Clinton's whorehouse style again. At least some Republicans used to vote against his ideas instead of bowing down and voting to destroy America which is what this President is doing.

When you get educated on this subject, then respond and I will answer your reply. See you in a few months.

[jackbenimble]

Illegals are like everyone else. Some of them are meticulous in their record keeping, most are not.

So only the illegals who are good record keepers will get cut-in on our Social Security. Now I feel better!

Furthermore, this applies only to illegals from Mexico, not those from other Latin American countries and Asia.

Isn't that about 65% of the total. Now I feel better!

Furthermore, this will benefit Americans working in Mexico much more than it will benefit Mexican illegals working in the US.

That statement is so disingenuous that it does not merit response. How many millions of Americans are working in Mexico? Just out of curiosity I would also be interested in how many of those were working illegally.

Furthermore, if this is so egregious, why does the US have similar agreements with other nations and why don't you advocate the discontinuing of these agreements that we have with other nations?

I think we have totalization agreements with about 20 countries. Name one of them that has a million or more of their citizens working in America illegally.

Shootem with rocksalt, steal their money, and kick their butt across the border.

That is about the first good idea I have ever seen you post.

[Ben Ficklin]

Freepers do not call freepers RINOs except as a compliment?

[gubamyster]

ping

[AnTh0Ny]

'Legalized' Illegal Aliens isn't that an oxymoron?

[jackbenimble]

President Bush was also against almost all those things you say the Dims were against.

I don't disagree with you that the Dims are worse than the GOP. But you seem to think that the GOP and particularly the President is doing a good job and there we part company. The borders are a sieve and the GOP has had 5 years to get a handle on them and they have done precious little and judging by what is coming out of the White House and the Senate they don't plan to do much more but play the issue a little lip-service. The GOP record on our borders can best be described as gross and willful neglect of Constitutional Duties.

[jackbenimble]

'Legalized' Illegal Aliens isn't that an oxymoron?

It ought to be but unfortunately, it is all to real.

[pollywog]

This issue is what is keeping Bush's poll numbers down. It is his OWN party that will eventually rebel and turn if this keeps up. WAKE UP MR. PRESIDENT!!! NO...on supporting any illegal in this country!!ILLEGAL is just that ILLEGAL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[napscoordinator]

I just don't know what happened to him. You know maybe we should just have one-term Presidents. I think President Bush should just ride out his time. His proposals are so rediculous and the ones he should be making he is not even talking about. I just don't get him anymore.

[neutrino]

Let's see now. We're going to cut Social Security for American citizens and workers. And we're going to give Social Security payments to illegal aliens -including those who have stolen Social Security numbers.

It appears that our leadership has gone insane.

[jackbenimble]

It appears that our leadership has gone insane.

Crazy like a fox in my opinion.

This idea can only be understood in the context of the Council on Foreign Relations (CFR) push to unite Canada, Mexico and the United States. The game is to force Americans to pay to bring Mexico up to our standard of living and to lower ours towards theirs.

[blackie]

Protect our borders and coastlines from all foreign invaders!

Support our Minutemen Patriots!

Be Ever Vigilant ~ Bump!