Oh, I'll do more reading. Make an argument, support it with a link, and I'll be sure to read it. I like fiction.
"BTW if you had read the link ..."
The link to that 10-year-old report? I got tired of reading phrases like "Agreement could not be reached" and "There is still some uncertainty" and "There is a lack of long-term follow up studies of vegetative patients beyond 2-3 years."
"... you would know that pvs cannot be diagnosed through autopsy."
I never claimed that it could. I said it was confirmed by autopsy, and questioned why you would still have your doubts. I'll ask you again, are you still arguing that Terri wasn't in a PVS, even after the autopsy?
"After he won that lawsuit he withdrew therapy."
Well, I don't argue that fact. What's your point? Are you saying because he won the lawsuit he withdrew therapy?
Oh, please say that.
"She qualified as a "terminal" patient because a judge ordered her to starve?"
A crude way of putting it (as I would expect from you) but, in a nutshell, yes.
"Starvation" and "dehydration" are not terminal illnesses."
No they're not. But Terri was ill and the court-ordered removal of her surgically implanted feeding tube made her terminally ill.
"At what point are you talking about?"
Terri was admitted to the hospice only after Judge Greer ordered the feeding tube removed.
"Do you realize how many years Terri was there? (on the medicare tab)"
First, it was Medicaid, not Medicare. Second, who's fault was it that she was there for years? (Hint: Look in a mirror). Third, Medicaid and Social Security paid only for some basic care costs, mostly drugs. Terri's hospice care of up to $5,000 per month was covered free of charge through a fund for indigent patients by Hospice of the Florida Suncoast.
"and if Hospices now become a place where pvs patients will be housed for the purpose of starving/dehydrating them"
I see. So where do these undesirables go?
If I choose not to treat my terminal cancer, I can go to a hospice. But if I'm in a PVS and have previouly chosen not to be artificially fed through a surgically implanted feeding tube the rest of my life, I'm thrown into the street?
So much for your "so-called" compassion.
"But if you examine Felos's ties to this particular Hospice, and examine how their board works"
Ah, here come the conspiracy theories. I wondered how long it would take you.
"it becomes clear why Terri was allowed to stay there (and stay there...and stay there...)"
For free ... for free ... for free.
"I don't debate with people who use rudeness and arrogance against me when they don't have a clue who I am or the research I've done."
Rude? What's rude was your first post to me on this thread. No explanation. No argument. No information. Just a link to the land of a thousand links.
That's rude. That's arrogant. And that's condescending. You're lucky I was in a good mood when I responded.
And your research is no different than all the other propaganda I've read. If you had researched the hospice beyond the run-of-the-mill gossipy conspiracy theories, for example, you would have known her care was provided for free.
Hasta la vista.
"The link to that 10-year-old report? I got tired of reading phrases like "Agreement could not be reached" and "There is still some uncertainty" and "There is a lack of long-term follow up studies of vegetative patients beyond 2-3 years.""
You don't lilke those terms?
That's exactly the problem...diagnosing pvs is not an exact science. Mistakes are often made in diagnoses.
Dr. Cranford misdiagnosed a policeman prior to the Schiavo case - but what do you expect from a doctor who has an active political agenda?
Not much has changed since this report-except that improvements in brain imaging suggests that these people may have more capablities (pertaining to awareness) than previously thought.
"I never claimed that it could. I said it was confirmed by autopsy, and questioned why you would still have your doubts. I'll ask you again, are you still arguing that Terri wasn't in a PVS, even after the autopsy?"
The term used was "consistent with" - which is not the same as confirmation.
IF Terri were minimally conscious (as some doctors believe she was) then the findings were "consistent with" that state also.
There are also different degrees of pvs - the autopsy findings could be "consistent with" a wide range of level of damage.
So...there is uncertainty.
I cannot say what her problem was - and I see that very educated experts from different fields of medicine could not agree either.If they cannot agree - why do so many Americans feel so confident in their own opinion?
I tend to give more weight to those who work in the field of rehabilitation because they spend more time with the patients and usually are the ones to find new ways to treat these people.
Pvs cannot be diagnosed by one person with a cursory visit.
It cannot be diagnosed from a CT scan. It is a clinical diagnosis that must be made by a team of experts over a period of time.
"Well, I don't argue that fact. What's your point? Are you saying because he won the lawsuit he withdrew therapy?"
I don't know why he did it. Who knows why a man would argue he needs funds for decades worth of therapy only to then deny that very same therapy?
I will give you this though...Terri's condition DID change. Prior to that point he was very concerned with her hygeine - her teeth - making sure she sat up in her chair, and was taken outside.
When basic hygeine is taken away - teeth aren't cleaned - the shades are drawn - the music turned off - visitatons denied -well yes, that can have a negative aspect on a person's health.
So...while Terri's brain injury did not change - other factors affecting her health (hygeine,stimulation) did cause her to have more infections, and to become more withdrawn.
"No they're not. But Terri was ill and the court-ordered removal of her surgically implanted feeding tube made her terminally ill."
Lots of people are ill - that's not the point.
Terri was NOT terminally ill.
You are trying to argue that the order from the judge MADE her terminally ill. This is your own argument - and it is not even an argument that Michael attempted to make.
This was not the basis used for the removal of the tube - nor for her move to hospice.
They made these decisions based solely on her brain injury - not based on any terminal illness.
"Terri's hospice care of up to $5,000 per month was covered free of charge through a fund for indigent patients by Hospice of the Florida Suncoast."
How nice of them.
And George Felos had nothing to do with this I'm sure.
"I see. So where do these undesirables go? "
Undesirables?
"If I choose not to treat my terminal cancer, I can go to a hospice. But if I'm in a PVS and have previouly chosen not to be artificially fed through a surgically implanted feeding tube the rest of my life, I'm thrown into the street?"
Terri would not have been thrown in the street. As you recall there were people waiting anxiously to take her in.
I doubt you would be thrown in the street either.
There are rehab centers all over the nation treating people just like Terri. They are not "hospices" where they wait for death (or artificially cause death)
They are places where people actually get therapy.
"So much for your "so-called" compassion"
Another example of your attempt to exaggerate the position of another.
"Ah, here come the conspiracy theories. I wondered how long it would take you."
It is a matter of public record - but it's always your choice to disregard it I suppose.
"Rude? What's rude was your first post to me on this thread. No explanation. No argument. No information. Just a link to the land of a thousand links."
This is the first time I've been accused of rudeness just for posting a link. No information? The information is on the link.
But clearly you can not be bothered.
"That's rude. That's arrogant. And that's condescending. You're lucky I was in a good mood when I responded."
Posting a link is rude and arrogant?
And name calling - is....what?
"If you had researched the hospice beyond the run-of-the-mill gossipy conspiracy theories, for example, you would have known her care was provided for free."
Nothing is free.