Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

To: Paul Ross
I will take Mr. Wortzel's opinions with serious regard, if only due to his affiliation with the Heritage Foundation, which I greatly respect. Nonetheless, a direct quote supplied by you with regard to the "700,000": It is impossible to know (emphasis mine) if these people are here for study and research or if they are here to steal our secrets. The sheer numbers defy complete vetting or counterintelligence coverage.

Thus, Mr. Wetzel is not claiming that there are 700,000 Chinese "spies" in the US. That is your representation, not his. Wild exaggeration does not help your argument. What he does appear to say is that some number of Chinese visitors to the US (not foreign "workers" - but visitors, and companies established here as front organizations) are involved in espionage. I think this is undoubtedly true. After all, we know that there are thousands of Muslims in the US allied with terrorist groups or their front organizations (a much bigger threat, to my mind). It is the responsibility of our intelligence services and law enforcement agencies to deal with these national security threats - but that's not what we're talking about here.

When American companies use Chinese workers in Chinese plants to assist in the quality control of silicon chips made by Chinese manufacturing (for world export)- that's not espionage. American companies trade with rotten governments all over the globe for purely economic reasons - should we use our own state power to stop them because the governments they treat with are corrupt and/or dangerously aggressive? Other countries may not have constitutional republics and limited government - but we do. As long as American companies are not engaged in illegal activity or activities detrimental to national security - such a blanket prohibition would be blatantly Unconstitutional, even under an exaggerated view of the Commerce Clause.

That said, the matter of whether Chinese vistors to the US may be engaging in industrial and/or miltary espionage is serious business, and must directly impact our relationship with the Chinese government. I agree with that assessment and do not deny the potential threat.But as Mr. Wentzel notes, programs that help develop entrepreneurial skills among well-educated Chinese citizens are "admirable" and ought to be encouraged. It helps to spread Western and capitalist values, and will ultimately undermine the nominally (but not really all that) "Communist" government of China. As the Soviet Union went, so shall they. We do need to protect ourselves - America comes first - you'll never get an argument from me there. But let's not exaggerate the threat - or downplay the benefits of exposure to democracy.

125 posted on 12/12/2005 7:26:16 PM PST by andy58-in-nh (In war, the only intelligent exit strategy is Victory.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 111 | View Replies ]


To: andy58-in-nh; ntrulock
It helps to spread Western and capitalist values, and will ultimately undermine the nominally (but not really all that) "Communist" government of China. As the Soviet Union went, so shall they.

That is not how the Soviets went. They didn't just fall. They were pushed. And right now, its we who are being pushed.

We do need to protect ourselves - America comes first - you'll never get an argument from me there. But let's not exaggerate the threat - or downplay the benefits of exposure to democracy.

Downplaying the what?? They have been innundating our nation with these spies for how long? 15 years plus, ever since Deng Xiou Ping crafted this long term game plan of the "Peaceful Rise". It always was a patient strategy, but nontheless dangerous. "Peaceful Rise" to what, precisely? Talk to the Chinese, they know exactly what they were rising to...supremacy. It was a euphemistic code phrase for lulling to sleep, and catching the U.S. off guard by pretending to no longer be an enemy, and seeming, partly to be dabbling with capitalism.

Remember how Deng Xiou Ping, when instructing his fellow hardliners why they were adopting the protective camouflage of partnering with Western capitalist industries said..."It doesn't matter whether you call the cat black or white, so long as it catches mice."

Then there is another issue you raised:

Thus, Mr. Wetzel is not claiming that there are 700,000 Chinese "spies" in the US. That is your representation, not his. Wild exaggeration does not help your argument.

I could simply say "True enough. I was just using a bit of hyperbole to counter your unwarranted rose-colored-glasses. And it worked, didn't it?" But the truth is, we really can't say that a single one of these Chinese are not potential spies. If it so happens that they land in an industrial job with defense applications, bingo! Many of them, such as "The Red Flower of North America" clearly were long-term moles from the get-go. All Chinese-funded students/businessmen would be likely susceptible to recruitment. Even if some were not terribly patriotic/nationalistic (which most really do appear to be...to an extreme). The PLA can be counted on finding out and pulling whatever strings are effective to bag the info from the Chinese national. Personal extortion. Family. Friends. Culture. Sex. Money. All the tools of tradecraft.

Mr. Wetzel likely doesn't come out and say this because the profound import might make him a target for the same kind of accusations that were falsely leveled against Notra Trulock, for example.

Expulsion en masse may be the only thing we can do. Allowing, of course, for a case-by-case review of those who willingly defect. And even then, keeping them far from defense technologies.

128 posted on 12/12/2005 7:54:52 PM PST by Paul Ross (My idea of American policy toward the Soviet Union is simple...It is this, 'We win and they lose.')
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 125 | View Replies ]

To: andy58-in-nh
It helps to spread Western and capitalist values, and will ultimately undermine the nominally (but not really all that) "Communist" government of China.

Read their constitution. The new economy is enslaved to service the communist sector. Its right there. Read it. Haven't you ever wondered why they keep 80% or so of their populace in the old economy? Why each and every foreign investment is required to be paired with a domestic partner getting 50% control? Why with the tremendous success that these supposed reforms they hadn't concluded it was a success and simply abandoned all residual traces of communism?

And "nominal" you say...Here, this speech by the PLA Defense Minister Chi Haotian should be an eye-opener for you...


129 posted on 12/12/2005 8:17:01 PM PST by Paul Ross (My idea of American policy toward the Soviet Union is simple...It is this, 'We win and they lose.')
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 125 | View Replies ]

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article


FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson