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To: snarks_when_bored
People often assert that no one is ever convinced one way or the other by debates on this issue, but this is not true.

Michael Denton, author of "Evolution, a Theory in Crisis, has written a new book, "Nature's Destiny," on intelligent Design. In it he says this:

"it is important to emphasize at the outset that the argument presented here is entirely consistent with the basic naturalistic assumption of modern science - that the cosmos is a seamless unity which can be comprehended ultimately in its entirety by human reason and in which all phenomena, including life and evolution and the origin of man, are ultimately explicable in terms of natural processes.

This is an assumption which is entirely opposed to that of the so-called "special creationist school". According to special creationism, living organisms are not natural forms, whose origin and design were built into the laws of nature from the beginning, but rather contingent forms analogous in essence to human artifacts, the result of a series of supernatural acts, involving the suspension of natural law.

Contrary to the creationist position, the whole argument presented here is critically dependent on the presumption of the unbroken continuity of the organic world - that is, on the reality of organic evolution and on the presumption that all living organisms on earth are natural forms in the profoundest sense of the word, no less natural than salt crystals, atoms, waterfalls, or galaxies."

Behe, the chief defence witness at Dover, has this to say about evolution:

I didn't intend to "dismiss" the fossil record--how could I "dismiss" it? In fact I mention it mostly to say that it can't tell us whether or not biochemical systems evolved by a Darwinian mechanism. My book concentrates entirely on Darwin's mechanism, and simply takes for granted common descent.

Nearly all the major players in the ID game accept common descent, even if they quibble over details of mechanism.

71 posted on 12/07/2005 10:51:07 AM PST by js1138 (Great is the power of steady misrepresentation.)
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To: js1138
"People often assert that no one is ever convinced one way or the other by debates on this issue, but this is not true"

People assert all sorts of things of course. I assume that many people are open to arguments based on reason and fact. Some of these move toward, some away, from evolutionary theory.

I followed your links. They do not convince me that Denton and Behe are evolutionists. The Denton link introduces the idea of directed evolution. That's not evolution as most know it. It seems to accept some, and reject other, tenets of standard evolutionary theory. The Behe link shows Behe calmly and civilly responding to eight attack quotes, half of which refer to him as "ignorant." In context, he seems to be saying that his book only dealt with the lack of demonstrated evolutionary mechanism at the biochemical level.

"Nearly all the major players in the ID game accept common descent, even if they quibble over details of mechanism."

Sorry, but I'm not convinced.

I knew a little about Behe. Thanks to your post, I may buy a couple of books by Denton! Is Nature's Destiny the last book he wrote?
968 posted on 12/11/2005 4:55:03 PM PST by ChessExpert (Democrats: Sore/Losermen 2000, 2004, 2008, 2012)
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