Posted on 12/05/2005 2:36:33 PM PST by Eaglewatcher
No. You are wrong. If it were a socialist's dream, then the socialists would want to pass the bill. But they don't. Socialists despise the bill and will do anything to prevent its passage. After all, it makes everyone share more evenly the cost of government and makes everyone's tax burden more visible and more painful.
...and the exemptions are a politician's dream.
What exemptions?
You seem to be what in olden days was called a mugwump or somethies a mugwamp (a fence-siter with his mug on one side of the fence and his wamp on the other). Can't make up your mind, eh?.
I see why I'm geting so many private mails about you and several of the Squirrels. The preponderance seem to believe you're a SQLer, too.
Privacy??? It's not the FairTax that requires reporting of earned income but the S/S laws. Those laws are quite independent of the FairTax and it is they that require the reporting.
Nor does the FairTax "require" you to register with them for the prebate which is optional. You needn't register at all if it a big point with you. Stick to your principles friend - waive the prebate and retain you private information about the family. (It's not to the FairTax anyway, but to the SSA that this is provided who, chances are, has it already if the truth be known - they just aren't going to assume you want the money in case you're one of those to whom family privacy is utmost. Your choice. Not required.
i said "requires...if you want your prebate" --- don't accuse me of not being able to read!
Both of your poison pills have been addressed multiple times by multiple FairTax supporters.
They are hardly worth further "pointing out" of the true situation to you with the exception of your gross mischaracterization of the prebate and exemptions as "equal evils". I just recently pointed out to you on this thread how and why this was not so yet you still profess the "company line" to try to combat the FairTax.
This amply illustrates why so many on these threads now believe that you are, indeed, adamantly oppoed to the FairTax.
i'm just stating that ONE aspect is a socialist's dream (to have as many citizens registered and receiving $ from the government on a monthly basis). it is the compromise to attempt to get liberals on board. (IMO)
(see Zon's reply re exemptions)
do you not actually read my posts? that would explain a lot. i stated i've changed my opinion since then. i've also stated that i question things for the purpose of discussion, such as the many items in the 309 post that are left untouched -- instead you'd rather harp on my opinion instead of agreeing to disagree like i've tried.
Understood, but read again. The point is that the prebate is optional, not mandatory. It is up to you to choose whether you want/need the money badly enough to comply with the requirement and supply the SSA with the requisite data or hold your family information private and not get the prebate.
That's called "freedom of choice" and it's something you don't have with filling out the income tax forms that actually require more of your "private" information than that.
Your choice, mugwamp.
How do they fare now? How do they fare under the FairTax?
| Current system | FairTax system | |
| Gross income | $10,712 | $10,712 |
| Less payroll taxes | -819 | 0.00 |
| Less Federal income taxes | 0.00 | 0.00 |
| Plus Earned Income Tax Credit | +4,204 | 0.00 |
| Add the prebate family allowance | 0.00 | +3,701 |
| Spendable income | 14,097 | 14,413 |
| Federal sales tax (30%) | 0.00 | -3,315 |
| Estimated hidden tax embedded in purchased goods (14.9%, or 28.2% on top of the cost of the good) | -3,101 | 0.00 |
| Purchasing power in after tax dollars | $10,996 | $11,098 |
thanks for the label. i really feel like part of your religion now.
"Both of your poison pills"
I DON'T HOLD TO TWO POISON PILLS. i'm really thinking you don't read the posts.
one i don't ascribe to at all anymore and the other I hold a negative opinion towards but understand that compromises have to be made.
please stop accusing me of being "ADAMANTLY OPPOED" to the FairTax. there are two reasons right now that i would be adamantly opposed: pigdog and Zon.
Only those Americans working for a living pay Social Security and Medicare taxes.Americans who receive income from stocks and bonds but don't receive a traditional "paycheck" don't pay Social Security or Medicare taxes.
That's paraphrased from The FairTax book. Do you know if a person with the above scenario is required by the SSA to report income to the SSA? It seems that they wouldn't.
S/S is for earned income only as I understand it.
M/C is a different breed of cat and costs whether one has earned income or not.
i said "requires...if you want your prebate" --- don't accuse me of not being able to read!
So now you claim you knew the prebate was voluntary all the time. You chose to misrepresent yourself. See below:
kpp_kpp: fairtax requires me to register with them and provide dependency info if i want my 'refund' (prebate), yet another invasion of privacy.335
You are not forced to sign up for the prebate, it is voluntary. Thus it cannot be invasion of your privacy.
i received a private reponse to an earlier statement i made "it is a liberal's dream to have every single family in the entire country on the dole of the federal government" stating "Privately, I agree with you." and went on to explain.
this from an individual here that strongly defends FairTax (in this thread) -- i can only assume that it was a private reply because they did not want to be attacked and labeled as "adamantly opposed" (humorous).
so, no, i have to disagree with you that.
the problem is the attack machine that is requiring fairtax supporters to be of one mind on all issues.
you can either defend the prebate as necessary to plan and a 'good' thing, including acceptance that it takes away privacy.
or
you can say well it's just an optional component, no real need for it if you don't want your privacy invaded.
not both.
how is it 'fair' that someone who chooses to give up their privacy gets a 'refund' but those that don't want to give up their privacy have to carry the full weight of the tax burden?
|
To: Principled
The exemption of "primary housing and unprocessed foods" in return for eliminating the prebate. See post 317. 342 posted on 12/07/2005 3:59:05 PM EST by Zon (Honesty outlives the lie, spin and deception -- It always has -- It always will.)
do you not actually read my posts? that would explain a lot. i stated i've changed my opinion since then. i've also stated that i question things for the purpose of discussion, such as the many items in the 309 post that are left untouched -- instead you'd rather harp on my opinion instead of agreeing to disagree like i've tried. |
I read your posts. I responded to Principled. He wanted to know what and where the "exemption" issue came from. So I told him. See above^
if you've read my posts that quote is from a year ago.
in 318, my response to 317, i stated:
* i hold the OPINION that prebate and exemptions are equal evils
* i've since changed my mind on primary housing
* states don't seem to have all that much difficulty not taxing food
* skip the prebate and don't tax the two critical things that can't be purchased used: anything intended for human consumption but not a controlled substance, and medical care
* just my OPINION
so, no, "primary housing" and "unprocessed foods" do not reflect my opinion. and i know that exemptions are considered "a bad thing" from a political standpoint. so you do not need to keep reiterating, just try not to misrepresent my words to conform to your opinion of me.
I think your wording (which percentages are problematic. BTW) and repositioning of the $3,101 does nothing to improve upon the table as shown in the FairTax presentation.
If anything, your repositioning of the hidden tax figure of $3,101 implies that somehow the taxpayer could spend the $14,097 and somehow never pay the hidden tax, In fact, that is not the case as the hidden tax is embedded in prices and reduces his spendable income by the $3,101 so that his true spendable income is $10,996 which is the true purchasing power as stated in the last line of the table.
The FairTax table is just fine as it is and I see no rational reason for it be changed as you suggest.
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