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To: frgoff
...and when you apply those, you find out the formation isn't just highly improbable, it's improbable to the point of being impossible. Behe goes into some of the chemistry in his book Darwin's Black Box.

Devastating if it were true, but it isn't. Among other problems, you can't calculate the probability of a long series of events without knowing the steps in the series. Behe has just extended the god of the gaps argument to a currently unsolved problem.

Asserting that a problem cannot be solved because it has not yet been solved is the single greatest evil possible in the world, because it denies reason and imagination.

787 posted on 12/07/2005 1:08:24 PM PST by js1138 (Great is the power of steady misrepresentation.)
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To: js1138
Asserting that a problem cannot be solved because it has not yet been solved is the single greatest evil possible in the world, because it denies reason and imagination.

The most evil thing in the world is hyperbole.

788 posted on 12/07/2005 1:12:29 PM PST by VadeRetro (Liberalism is a cancer on society. Creationism is a cancer on conservatism.)
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To: js1138
Devastating if it were true, but it isn't. Among other problems, you can't calculate the probability of a long series of events without knowing the steps in the series.

Sorry, it is true. Unlike biological evolution, you've trod on the ground of Physics and Chemistry, true, experimental sciences. Chemists and Physicists don't do archaeological digs and declare they've found a missing link. Chemists and Physicists look at actual, existing chemicals and perform experiments with empirical analysis.

These chemicals have been analyzed. We have re-created some in the laboratory and know the steps involved. Others we've analyzed in the cell as they are being manufactured. The only probabilities involved are the ones that determine chemical reactions: electron affinity, orbitals, activation energies, etc.

We have observed empirically, using the known laws of physics and chemistry, that the intermediate compounds in the steps of formation are chemically unstable and will spontaneously break down outside the specialized environment of the living cell.

Asserting that a problem cannot be solved because it has not yet been solved is the single greatest evil possible in the world, because it denies reason and imagination.

I never said the problem of the origins of life cannot be solved. I said that spontaneous generation is categorically ruled out by the laws of physics. This is a step toward a solution because we have now found one explanation that will not work and we can quit wasting time pursuing it.

However, your comment of devastating shows that you are an idealogue on this issue. The idea of finding out that spontaneous generation, or other purely naturalistic explanation is devastating shows that you are NOT interested in going wherever the evidence leads, but that you will accept one and only one destination.

792 posted on 12/07/2005 1:33:57 PM PST by frgoff
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