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To: PatrickHenry
The story has a hint for the ID crowd. The Big Bang made a prediction of something that 1) we hadn't seen or guessed before, and 2) came true.

So, IDers, tell us something we didn't know, based on your theory. Then go find it.

38 posted on 12/05/2005 5:34:29 AM PST by VadeRetro (Liberalism is a cancer on society. Creationism is a cancer on conservatism.)
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To: VadeRetro
The story has a hint for the ID crowd. The Big Bang made a prediction of something that 1) we hadn't seen or guessed before, and 2) came true.

So, IDers, tell us something we didn't know, based on your theory. Then go find it.

They can't, because it makes NO useful (meaning testable) predictions; hence the reason why IDers are so determined to try to change the very definition of science itself to include the supernatural.

140 posted on 12/05/2005 8:28:54 AM PST by longshadow
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To: VadeRetro
If a Creator did in fact design Life, then there likely cannot be any evidence to be found: The Creator would reside outsidethe universe, outside of spacetime.

We, as part of the created universe, would have no way of detecting something from "outside" our universe.

So...we have to use other methods.

The clue will be in the Kalam Cosmological Argument (q.v.).

The universe might not yield provable evidence--the absence of evidence is not evidence of absence--but the universe could not have CREATED ITSELF.

One can "beg the question" all day and posit brane theory for creating our universe, but sooner or later, you have to pay the piper and ask where the first created universe in our posited multiverse came from.

The answer is always: from OUTSIDE. From an intelligent source not bound by our laws of matter and energy and time. This is hinted at in Genesis, also in Pslams, Isaiah, and other books. How could they have known, 3,000 years ago?

How?

Judeo-Christianity doesn't have a giant turtle holding up a flat earth. It doesn't invoke Atlas. It doesn't say the universe came from a cosmic frog egg that hatched.

The Judeo-Christian worldview, of all religions, very nearly aligns with scientific theory in sequence of what was created. It's remarkable, when you roll up your sleeves and look into it. Remarkable.

The biggest question of all is this: Why should there be SOMETHING...instead of NOTHING?

Peace.

281 posted on 12/05/2005 1:56:16 PM PST by sauron ("Truth is hate to those who hate Truth" --unknown)
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