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Intelligent design’s long march to nowhere
Science & Theology News ^ | 05 December 2005 | Karl Giberson

Posted on 12/05/2005 4:06:56 AM PST by PatrickHenry

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To: Diamond
It [ID]says nothing about what to expect, projects no data and makes no falsifiable claims.

This is not my statement.

I said that the citations you posted had no data and no experimentation.

But the heuristic aspect that is claimed by one of the writers has not proven itself. After 10 years, there's still no data. If ID is ever going to get on the map it will have to generate data first.

261 posted on 12/05/2005 12:53:18 PM PST by Rudder
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To: Junior

Both are applicable. One cannot test unobserved, unrecorded phenomena but can only make inferences from what exists. One can also dismiss all phenomena as "occuring naturally" whether it occurs naturally or not. In either case, the assertions are no more scientific, and no more provable, than those of ID proponents.


262 posted on 12/05/2005 1:08:28 PM PST by Fester Chugabrew
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To: DoctorMichael

To what do you attribute the presence of organized matter?


263 posted on 12/05/2005 1:11:55 PM PST by Fester Chugabrew
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To: Fester Chugabrew
One cannot test unobserved, unrecorded phenomena but can only make inferences from what exists.

The phenomena in question are not "unrecorded" as I pointed out to you. And they do occur naturally as they are occuring even to this day. You're dancing around the issue.

264 posted on 12/05/2005 1:21:15 PM PST by Junior (From now on, I'll stick to science, and leave the hunting alien mutants to the experts!)
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To: Fester Chugabrew
What if...

we just happen to live in a universe that has the property of organizing itself? To me, that is much more feasible than it being organized by some sort of all powerful personage
265 posted on 12/05/2005 1:25:11 PM PST by rootkidslim (... got the Sony rootkit on your Wintel box? You can thank Orrin Hatch!)
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To: Junior
The phenomena in question are not "unrecorded" as I pointed out to you.

The phenomena in question happens to be an arrangement of molecules that results in the formation of a biological entity. Please direct me to that time and place where such phenomena have been observed and recorded; where life has been observed to arise from non-living matter. It is you who are dancing around the issue.

266 posted on 12/05/2005 1:25:34 PM PST by Fester Chugabrew
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To: Rudder
After 10 years, there's still no data. If ID is ever going to get on the map it will have to generate data first.

And once it does, then we should discuss it. Until it does, it's not worth the time.

267 posted on 12/05/2005 1:26:32 PM PST by highball ("I find that the harder I work, the more luck I seem to have." -- Thomas Jefferson)
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To: dotnetfellow
Evolution has never adequately defended itself against the empirical evidence of punctuated equilibrium.

Darwin and Punctuated Equilibrium. "PE" was actually predicted by Darwin.

268 posted on 12/05/2005 1:27:20 PM PST by PatrickHenry (Virtual Ignore for trolls, lunatics, dotards, common scolds, & incurable ignoramuses.)
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To: rootkidslim

That is one way a person could view the universe as we know it. Many people think of it that way. It is not wholly unreasonable. Nor is it wholly unreasonable to infer that where there is organized matter a designer may be involved. Both points of view will affect how one does science; how one interprets the evidence.

The best evidence for lack of intelligent design is chaos. Science doesn't happen very well where chaos reigns.


269 posted on 12/05/2005 1:28:54 PM PST by Fester Chugabrew
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To: jec41
Darwin did not have a degree in medicine (He could not stomach surgery).

His degree was in religion/theology from Cambridge.

His interest in nature was an extracurricular activity.

270 posted on 12/05/2005 1:31:57 PM PST by pby
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To: js1138
Do you have a link to Scientific American's article on Directed Panspermia and the related research?
271 posted on 12/05/2005 1:35:17 PM PST by pby
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The regularity of the world proves a designer.
Irregularities and improbabilities prove a designer.

The Designer designed everything.
We can spot design when we see it.

Life is impossible, therefore ID.
The universe is made for life, therefore ID.

Evolution causes communism.
Evolution causes fascism.
Evolution causes the evils of capitalism.

272 posted on 12/05/2005 1:36:53 PM PST by PatrickHenry (Virtual Ignore for trolls, lunatics, dotards, common scolds, & incurable ignoramuses.)
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To: highball
And once it does, then we should discuss it. Until it does, it's not worth the time.

If it weren't for the Ignorati (what one web site calls the antievolutionists), there would be nothing to say at all.

273 posted on 12/05/2005 1:39:46 PM PST by Rudder
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To: js1138
Just pure speculation.

And Dr. Crick theorized that it was aliens seeding Earth via rocket ships...not meteors from Mars seeded with life of some sort. He even drew pictures of the rocket ships in his book. What was it called...Life Itself?

I liked the comment on chemical evolution equalling abiogenesis though.

274 posted on 12/05/2005 1:43:01 PM PST by pby
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To: CarolinaGuitarman; jec41
While the idea of the transmutation of species was not new with Darwin, his presentation and explanation for the causative agent (Natural selection) WAS new.

Interestingly enough, Linnaeus was led to the conclusion that species aren't fixed.

Was Linnaeus an evolutionist? It is true that he abandoned his earlier belief in the fixity of species, and it is true that hybridization has produced new species of plants, and in some cases of animals. Yet to Linnaeus, the process of generating new species was not open-ended and unlimited.

Source

275 posted on 12/05/2005 1:44:10 PM PST by Virginia-American
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To: Rudder
I'll cite one: Miller-Urey.

FAILED TO PROVE ABIOGENESIS.

276 posted on 12/05/2005 1:46:28 PM PST by sauron ("Truth is hate to those who hate Truth" --unknown)
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To: montag813
Those preachers, that you referred to, might just be accurately pointing out the outright misrepresentations in the museum displays relating to human origins, human evolution, horse evolution and dinosaur to bird evolution (complete with feathered dinosaurs that don't even really exist...sinosauroptyrex and so forth).
277 posted on 12/05/2005 1:48:52 PM PST by pby
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To: sauron
"I'll cite one: Miller-Urey.

FAILED TO PROVE ABIOGENESIS."

It was never intended to *prove* abiogensis. No theory is ever *proved*; the experiment was still an important first step in the study of how life began.
278 posted on 12/05/2005 1:49:24 PM PST by CarolinaGuitarman ("There is a grandeur in this view of life...")
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To: Servant of the 9

I believe you have missed my point completely. I am in total agreement that Theology cannot be falsified by Science, nor can Science be proved through Theology.

What I am saying is that this journal DOES attempt to verify theology using science and that it does so on the presumption that science will trump theology whenever the two are perceived to conflict. I find this prejudicial and possibly bigoted, certainly unintellectual.

Do we still disagree on any point?


279 posted on 12/05/2005 1:49:57 PM PST by BelegStrongbow
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To: pby

"Those preachers, that you referred to, might just be accurately pointing out the outright misrepresentations in the museum displays relating to human origins, human evolution, horse evolution and dinosaur to bird evolution (complete with feathered dinosaurs that don't even really exist...sinosauroptyrex and so forth)."

What misrepresentations?
BTW, some dinosaurs DID have feathers.


280 posted on 12/05/2005 1:54:27 PM PST by CarolinaGuitarman ("There is a grandeur in this view of life...")
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