Islam’s mystical claim on Jerusalem

American Thinker ^ | 12-4-05 | James M. Arlandson

[Sabramerican]

what does this all have to do with American conservatism?

I'll miss you on the next Israel related thread!

[GOPPachyderm]

Not even proponents of replacement theology?

[GOPPachyderm]

Jerusalem, I am told, does not appear in the Koran. And Mohammed claimed to have ascended to heaven from a big rock. It was later interpreted to be the location of the current Dome of the Rock.

[Bushbacker]

Jerusalem, I am told, does not appear in the Koran. And Mohammed claimed to have ascended to heaven from a big rock. It was later interpreted to be the location of the current Dome of the Rock.

+++Not everything which is part of a religious tradition appears in a holy book. Some of Christianity is the product of tradition, rather than having appeared in the Gospels.

TThis whole line of reasoning is ridiculous. If Islam teaches that Jerusalem is a holy place, it is not for non-Muslims to say it must be in the Koran or it isn't valid.

[GOPPachyderm]

Kind of "name it and claim it"?

I think it is relevant as to when the claim was made and what evidence is available to back it up. The assertion was made after Mohammed died and he wasn't in a position to refute just exactly where the dream was supposed to have happened.

[Bushbacker]

I think it is relevant as to when the claim was made and what evidence is available to back it up. The assertion was made after Mohammed died and he wasn't in a position to refute just exactly where the dream was supposed to have happened

____The claim has existed for over 1400 years...it is pointless and arrogant to deny it when it obviously is a important part of the religion of a billion people..even if we, as non-Muslims, find "holes" in it.

[Donald Meaker]

Mohammed was illiterate, and did not write the Quran/Koran. He recited. These recitations were usually in response to something he was resolving as the chief of a bandit of caravan raiders.

Hundreds of years after his death, his successors wanted to put together his recitations. This was done by memory or by attribution, but at different times in different places. That is why there are different versions in Arabic. These variants are suppressed, because the religious elite prefer to claim that the Koran was transcribed without error, by the grace of Allah.

Oh, an interesting thing about old documents. Quite often the best and most accepted versions have no old copies. That is because the versions used were used up, and copies were made. The versions that were thought to be unsuitable for use, through errors in translation or transcription, would not be used, but would also be rarely thrown away. Hence the scripture copy found in Sinai [synaniticus?] is a very old version, but has several variations from the most commonly accepted text. That doesn't necessarily mean that the new ones have the errors....
but

[WhirlwindAttack]

THE MYSTERIES OF ISLAM  EXPLAINED!

Islam has long been a great mystery to the west, even to most scholars on
the subject. But not to worry!I know ALL ABOUT these things and I'd be more than happy to 'splain.

Long long ago, about fifteen hundred years, there lived an unemployed
illiterate pedophile maniac named Mohammad.
Mo had a lot of social issues and low self esteem.

~Mo Hammad~

The local goat market was in a slump and Mo was at a loss on how
to make a living and improve his lot, he lived in a cave out back of his dad's
place and was not happy. Mo hit upon the idea of picking one of the many deities
available and promoting this deity into the supreme god of gods with him as its prophet and spokesman.

He was a pretty shrewd fellow for an illiterate unemployed pedophile maniac and realized this
could be big mojo for him and end his poverty and pathetic miserableness.
Folks in Mo's neighborhood were pretty gullible and prone to believe anything at all.

In a local holy place called Mecca the folks worshipped all kinds of different
gods in a sort of holy grotto and had set up shrines to all the varied gods and stuff.

Mo hied himself to Mecca and found he thought highly of allah, the moon god.
Allah was in fact a rock, or a stone if you will, and was kind of an obscure god because.. well, ..it was just a rock.

Allah had two daughters who were pebbles and a bit later a great schism
erupted over whether it was OK to worship these pebbles too,
seeing as they were the daughters of allah.. turned out it was not OK.

The magical allah stone!

There was even a classical but obscure arabic song composed at
the time about allah the moon god (stone) which can be heard here.

Having selected which deity he would promote, Mo decided that a supreme god
of gods like allah the stone would need to have some pretty serious rules
and regulations and stuff if Mo were to truly profit from being a
prophet. So he sat his illiterate unemployed pedophile maniac butt
down and hacked out a whole crackhead's ranting of illogic and hate
and general oppresive negativity & fanaticism and called it the word
of allah, the rock, as told to him.. Mo, the prophet. (He had to dictate
this to a scribe, he could only manage to draw stick figures in the dirt by himself.)

More or less allah the rock's message (as told by holy Mo) was pretty much
about how only those folks who believed allah the rock's message
(as told by holy Mo) were any good at all and they should live more or less
like dogs and obey very strictly the laws laid down in allah the rock's
message (as told by holy Mo) and these were mostly about being a slave to
allah the rock and treating women like dirty boots and making obeissance to
allah the rock several times a day and performing obsessive-compulsive washing
acts and other kind of gross stuff that I won't go into right here or now.

Also, allah the stone gave the faithful all kinds of dietary restrictions.
Some say these may have been prompted by young Mo having been rejected
by a particular barnyard animal,
the scriptures are unclear.

All these things, while seeming kind of outrageous, were only for the believers, the faithful.
For the non-believers in allah the rock's message (as told by holy Mo), things were much worse.

According to allah the rock and holy Mo if you were a believer it would be
perfectly OK to lie, cheat, steal, rob, subjugate, tax, plunder, kill,
rape, mutilate, immolate, dismember, impale, decapitate, disembowel,
strangle, impoverish, enslave, kick, spit on or damn to hell anyone who was not
a believer.

The crowd went wild!

Oh, how the local folks ate this up! Like gravy on
biscuits they were all over it.

Amazingly, these folks for the most part don't drink any alcohol.
I find that incredible because it usually takes about 3/4 of a
bottle of Tequila for me to get anywhere even close to a mind-set like that.

Mo decided to go national with his shpiel about allah the rock's message
so he killed an elderly lemon vendor and stole his donkey and went on tour.

In every town and tent city and caravan Mo visited, he sold his fabrications
to all the goatherders and tentmakers and sheepshaggers he could and they mostly ate it up..
Mo was enthused and hired more scribes to jot down more rantings about how allah the rock commanded it's slaves to make a holy war whenever possible against all who disbelieve the supremacy of allah the rock.

The crowd went wild!

Ultimately, Mo was highly sucessful in a local fashion in convicing the various
goatherders and tentmakers and sheepshaggers of his time to convert completely to
the subjugation & worship of allah the rock and it's message (as told by holy Mo).
The faithful managed to enshrine the actual rock that embodies allah in the holy
area of Mecca, and they built a huge giant cube around it and now it has magical genies inside.

Mo's followers gave the name "islam" to this new exciting religion
of hate and oppression and mindless slavery to a moon rock that isn't even from the moon.
"Islam" roughly translated means: "We like the moon!"

Mo was mighty pleased with the way things worked out until he went to hell
but thats another story. Ultimately whole bunches of folks adopted the sacred
teachings of allah the rock and holy Mo.. they gather around the giant cube full
of magic genies and declare themselves slaves while prostrating suggestively.
It's quite a scene!

Also it is a fact that allah the rock left another piece of himself
lying about in Mecca strategically located near a bunch of vendors.. this holy
attraction is billed as the "black stone of allah" and is encased in
a sphincter-like arrangement into which the devout may place their heads.
Mo would have been proud!

I'm glad to have had this opportunity for us all to
learn more about fascinating islam. I'm sure there is even yet more to the story but
I've droned on long enough. Have a wonderful day and please remember that while allah
the rock might be an awesome powerful stone or whatever..
he is really quite afraid of the US Marine Corps.

Carry on!

This shameless infidel posting is brought to you by:
ALLAH brand urinal cakes.(tm)

May peace be upon him!

[Donald Meaker]

Well, it is worse than that. There was no written Arabic language at the time of Mohammed.

Some 200 years later, they had used the syriac-aramaic script to write arabic, so one could write the Koran in arabic.

If you review the arabic text, there are a number of words which make no sense in arabic. but in syrio-aramaic there are words which make sense. This seems to me to be pretty strong evidence that the Koran was written at 'cusp' time, using arabic words, syrio-aramaic letters, and when the writer needed to stretch, to express a concept for which there was no arabic word, he used a convenient syrio-aramaic word.

That cusp occured 200 years after Mohammed. Besides, if Mohammed wrote it, then why are there different texts? Smells like the "skull of St.Anne" in Twain's Innocents Abroad.

[Donald Meaker]

Most great men are created ex post facto. For example, take Socrates. Death by hemlock is excrutiating. Plato airbrushed that out, with his "I owe a cock to [the god of healing].

So, Plato lied, or, more likely, he ducked out of town until the uproar died down.

Even Robert E. Lee was created after the fact. He surmounted defeat by taking the blame upon himself, and surmouted victory by giving all the credit to Jackson. Still, before then he was called "Evacuating Lee" after his first campaign, and yes, the rudest aspect of evacuating was meant.

Oh, but we forget all that now.

[Donald Meaker]

There is a way to know. If one asserts that there was a written arabic language before the Koran, then one has to produce some example, or a copy. There is none. NONE.

The stories of the writing of the Bible are also pushed back to give authority. Genesis was written later than 600BC, because it mentions camels as domestic animals.

My understanding of the Bible was the oldest part is the story of gay blades David and Jonathan. Of the Law, the first written was Deuteronmy, in the reign of king Josiah. The others, Genesis, Exodus, Numbers, Leviticus were written later, as pious frauds, to expand upon the doctrines of the religious elite of its day.

This kind of thing happens all the time. A modern example is the expansion of Star Wars to 1,2 and 3 after 4,5, and 6 had been out for a while.

Judges was written to justify why Solomon, the younger son of the former Philistine lord David, should rule the tribes. Each tribe has a hero, and all were combined into a narrative thata separated them from the tribes outside the rule of Solomon.

Exodus was then written as a back story, as to why the tribes were separate from the others.

The bible is not history, and never was. It is no more valid a record of the actual events than the propaganda of Gobbels was a record of WWII.
'

[Donald Meaker]

The funny is the destruction of Jerusalem by Vespacian and or Titus didn't include the Roman fortress. When Jerusalem was desolate, the Roman base was the only building not destroyed.

Later, when the Arabs took over they build their furthest mosque on the site of the Roman barracks and Stables. The foundation of the Jerusalem mosque is horse manure....Literally.