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Attention, Wal-Mart critics
The Seattle Times ^ | November 30, 2005 | Michael Medved

Posted on 12/04/2005 3:43:27 AM PST by beaversmom

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To: MarkL
Your lack of understanding of class actions is exceeded only by your disdain for the lawyers who bring them and benefit the people who have been defrauded by Walmart. Are you suggesting that the professional who create a benefit for these thousands of empoyees not be compensated for their services to these folks, the public generally and the honesty of the system?

Such ignorance emphasized and enhanced by one's hatred of the very professionals who keep the miscreant Walmart from defrauding these tens of thousands of employees demonstrates a disturbing, no, disgraceful, lack of civic integrity and candor.

Everyone of your ilk hates lawyers until the Walmarts of the world screw them and then, that fashionable hatred among the far right seems to moderate as they themselves seek professional help that only lawyers can provide.

While I would not wish anyone suffer from injustice, I would hope that ignorant folks, like you, learn that the benefits that come from the protections of the civil law are realized because there are lawyers who undertake to represent worthwhile causes like the Walmart employees--and even you, if you need them.

121 posted on 12/04/2005 8:16:13 PM PST by middie
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To: HighlyOpinionated

Our WalMart Supercenter pays more per hour than the Mom and Pop grocery stores do and ever did. Mom and pop could get away with paying minimum wage and they don't offer health insurance at all no matter how long an employee works for them.

Maybe in your neck of the woods WalMart doesn't help the local economy but that's not true in my area. As an example, we've had 3 new fast food restaurants, a new jewelry store, an antique mall, two dollar stores and several boutique type stores open here. Home sales are up and people are getting more for their homes than they were pre-WM. The local hospital was able to afford to expand and upgrade. We're able to attract more specialists in the medical field. The local hospital now advertises for more nursing positions as do the local assisted living and nursing homes.

Only one grocery store closed because WalMart built their new store close to it. Of course the grocery store was way overpriced. They've since re-opened in their old spot but are now leaner. They're doing quite well because they've focused on what they did best which is offering excellent meats.

People's standard of living is better because they don't have to pay outlandish prices for every day items. A couple of examples: I now pay 3.50 for 8 bars of Dial/Lever Bros/other name brand soap instead of 3 bars for 4.96. A bottle of 50 extra strength, coated Bayer aspirin now costs me 4.36 instead of 6.50. I can buy the economy sized bottle of my shampoo for what I used to pay for the regular sized bottle. Or store brand Nyquil, I can either pay 3.99 for a regular sized bottle or go to WM and buy 2 family sized bottles for 4.27. I could go on using cereal, canned vegetables, pet food, etc. as examples of saving money by shopping at WalMart.

The money I save shopping at WalMart allows me to splurge at the boutique type shops or to eat steak more than once every couple of months or to put more money in savings.

Fifty new jobs were also added because the old WalMart building has been turned into a warranty facility for WalMart's jewelry.

Is my area the exception? How did we "luck" out?


122 posted on 12/04/2005 8:43:55 PM PST by Sally'sConcerns (Native Texan, now in SW Ok..)
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To: starboardlist
What is it about Wal-Mart and "Big Oil" that makes otherwise good conservatives lose their minds?

It's their inner child...still believes in boogie men.

123 posted on 12/04/2005 9:23:59 PM PST by hinckley buzzard
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To: MarkL

That is actually the point I was trying to make. You made it more clearly.

Thanks.


124 posted on 12/04/2005 9:31:53 PM PST by pollyannaish
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To: middie

+Class actions benefit lawyers. Period. Well, OK, the socialist left as well.


125 posted on 12/04/2005 9:33:40 PM PST by narses (St Thomas says “lex injusta non obligat”)
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To: Sally'sConcerns
Is my area the exception? How did we "luck" out?

No it is not just your area. The facts actually support your anecdotal evidence.

And, for what it's worth, that is exactly how it has happened in our town. In fact, we've had MORE mom and pops open up since they got here than we had before. Go figure.

126 posted on 12/04/2005 9:34:43 PM PST by pollyannaish
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To: middie
A retrogression to the 'company store' of the Robber Baron days of the 1880s railroad construction across the U.S.

The railoads were built by capitalists who had to deal with corrupt politicians in order to achieve their goals. "Robber barons" were people who did well by building the nation, in an era of no income tax, and many, such as JP Morgan, were highly ethical. The "company store" belongs to the mining industry not the railroads. Nice try though, and thanks for playing.

127 posted on 12/04/2005 9:37:40 PM PST by hinckley buzzard
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To: middie
Your lack of understanding of class actions is exceeded only by your disdain for the lawyers who bring them and benefit the people who have been defrauded by Walmart. Are you suggesting that the professional who create a benefit for these thousands of empoyees not be compensated for their services to these folks, the public generally and the honesty of the system?

As someone who's been a member of a successful "class action," but received practicly nothing, while the amount the lawyers collected was enormous (IIRC, I got a few "free item" coupons, worth about $10 in total, while I was bilked out of well over $100 by the company that lost the judgement), I believe that many "class actions" are initiated by lawyers, simply because they believe that they can rake in lots of money, by going after a very small amount per member of the class, and making it up in volume. They're going after the "deep pockets," not too different than what the lawyers did in the tobacco settlements, which was nothing more than a "legal" shake down. Now maybe there are some "noble" lawyers out there who participate in class actions, but the one I participated in seem to have had their best interests in mind when they filed. And it seems that many other cases I've read about are the same.

Such ignorance emphasized and enhanced by one's hatred of the very professionals who keep the miscreant Walmart from defrauding these tens of thousands of employees demonstrates a disturbing, no, disgraceful, lack of civic integrity and candor.

As I mentioned, in the post you've responed to, I wish that the vast majority of the judgements go to those who were cheated out of their earned wages. If these cases were filed on a case by case basis, using contingency fees, the judgements would go with about 1/3 to the lawyer, and 2/3 to the injured party. I feel that's fair. But it seems to me that in many cases, class action suits dilute the judgements, to the point where a plaintiff who should have a good case for a judgement to be made whole, loses out due to the number of members of the class. In fact, I believe that if there was even a threat for tens of thousands of law suits, Walmart would offer very fair settlements to every cheated employee that would probably far exceed the amount of a class action judgement.

Everyone of your ilk hates lawyers until the Walmarts of the world screw them and then, that fashionable hatred among the far right seems to moderate as they themselves seek professional help that only lawyers can provide.

Actually, I was in exactly this sort of situation years ago, and it seems that my lawyer was either completely incompetant or corrupt, so yes, I have a personal dislike for some lawyers, although I now know a few that I would trust. Of course, one only handles capital cases, and he's a law professor. So I guess I'm OK if I'm ever accused of murdering someone.

While I would not wish anyone suffer from injustice, I would hope that ignorant folks, like you, learn that the benefits that come from the protections of the civil law are realized because there are lawyers who undertake to represent worthwhile causes like the Walmart employees--and even you, if you need them.

Well, being one who HAS sufferred either from innept or corrupt lawyers in the past, I can say that I have been screwed by a major corporation (a subsidiary of Pepsico) about 30 years ago. While I couldn't even get reimbursed for my medical bills from a gas explosion at work, or even get workmans comp (that's how badly the lawyer screwed things up), the corporation I worked for WAS able to get a settlement from the local utility company. So, yes, I do have a "bad taste in my mouth" when it comes to lawyers.

Mark

128 posted on 12/04/2005 9:43:43 PM PST by MarkL (When Kaylee says "No power in the `verse can stop me," it's cute. When River says it, it's scary!)
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To: pollyannaish
That is actually the point I was trying to make. You made it more clearly.

Thanks.

Well, please don't tell anybody. I've got a reputation to protect, and if anyone finds out that I stated something clearly, there'll be hell to pay!

Mark

129 posted on 12/04/2005 9:51:39 PM PST by MarkL (When Kaylee says "No power in the `verse can stop me," it's cute. When River says it, it's scary!)
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To: pollyannaish
And, for what it's worth, that is exactly how it has happened in our town. In fact, we've had MORE mom and pops open up since they got here than we had before. Go figure.

It makes good economic sense more mom and pop shops open when a WalMart SuperCenter opens. In the post of mine you responded to I mentioned we had several boutique specialty shops open when WalMart opened. One of the major reasons a store can be successful is location. Locating a specialty shop near a Supercenter brings in traffic. I can open a boutique specialty shop which offers unique quality items but if I don't have the exposure I'm not going to succeed.

There's a reason the adage of "Location, location, location!" is true. :)

130 posted on 12/04/2005 11:47:17 PM PST by Sally'sConcerns (Native Texan, now in SW Ok..)
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To: middie
Rush is both an ill-intentioned and malicious ally of the Walmart philosophy of abuse and exploitation that contributes to the bottom line irrespective of the business ethics - or lack thereof. In addition, he is just basically a malicious moron.

No, Rush has faith in the Free Market....a trait you do not share.

You worry that Wal-Mart is abusive. If it is, it will not exist for very long, regardless of gov't intervention.

131 posted on 12/05/2005 6:43:57 AM PST by Erik Latranyi (9-11 is your Peace Dividend)
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To: MarkL
The article says $8.23 for PART TIME employment. And to WalMart "full time" means 28 or more hours consecutively. Locally we have no WallyWorld, but in NC and a neighboring County (with a buffer County in between), I've been told my by Medicaid applicants that they have to work 28 or more hours a week for two full years before they are eligible for WalMart insurance. One woman came it, pregnant, in tears because she had TWO MONTHS of "full time" employment to go before she had worked 24 months at WM and was going to be eligibile for WM insurance. They cut her hours to less than 28 a week for six weeks and told her she'd have to start at the bottom and work another 24 months of 28 hours or more to qualify for WM insurance.

To make this model work, Wal-Mart must keep labor costs down. It does this by making corporate crime an integral part of its business strategy. Wal-Mart routinely violates laws protecting workers' organizing rights (workers have even been fired for union activity). It is a repeat offender on overtime laws; in more than thirty states, workers have brought wage-and-hour class-action suits against the retailer. In some cases, workers say, managers encouraged them to clock out and keep working; in others, managers locked the doors and would not let employees go home at the end of their shifts. And it's often women who suffer most from Wal-Mart's labor practices. Dukes v. Wal-Mart, which is the largest civil rights class-action suit in history, charges the company with systematically discriminating against women in pay and promotions [see Featherstone, "Wal-Mart Values: Selling Women Short," December 16, 2002].
http://www.thenation.com/docprint.mhtml?i=20050103&s=featherstone

But yeah, WalMart is a "good" employer. /sarcasm
132 posted on 12/05/2005 8:04:11 AM PST by HighlyOpinionated (In Memory of Crockett Nicolas, hit and run in the prime of his Cocker Spaniel life, 9/3/05.)
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To: T'wit

We don't shop much at WalMart up here in the great white north. There selection of touques are really limited.
Bump and a drip!
BigM


133 posted on 12/05/2005 5:50:47 PM PST by Plasmaman
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To: MarkL

OK---I was a member of a class and received a check for the full amount of the fraud imposed on me (actually my wife) through credit card cheating by one of the largest banks issuing cards. The envelope contained a check for $4,000 (plus). Of course there are sleazy lawyers and I don't like them any more than you. But the nature of the procedure is sound and not flawed.


134 posted on 12/06/2005 2:28:26 PM PST by middie
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To: Plasmaman

Howdy from the not-much-farther-south frozen north :-)


135 posted on 12/06/2005 7:05:03 PM PST by T'wit (Liberals love to do everything mom and dad told them was naughty, underhanded, malicious or sick.)
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To: beaversmom
"Progressive" activists may hate Wal-Mart, but they must recognize that if the company closed tomorrow it would throw hundreds of thousands out of work and make the lives of millions of customers vastly less convenient.

BS!!! Any "Progressive" or Conservative with a brain realizes if there is a need for goods and services, some enterprising person will provide. I guess we all lived in caves before Walmart showed up.

136 posted on 12/06/2005 7:14:20 PM PST by moehoward
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To: moehoward

It would take some time to fill the void. The Wal-Mart behemoth wasn't built overnight and if it was easily replicated their competition wouldn't be lagging so far behind. I know I would miss them if they vanished tomorrow, and I'm sure the 100 million people that shop there weekly would miss them as well.


137 posted on 12/06/2005 8:25:38 PM PST by beaversmom
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To: beaversmom

It might take a month or two IF they all disappeared overnight. Hardly realistic to assume they would though.

We are witnessing a downturn in Walmarts dominance, leading to more competition, which is a good thing.

Now, you may hold some personal fondness for Walmart. But I seriously doubt most care what name hangs over the door. Their only concern is, someone is there to sell goods at a price they are willing to pay.


138 posted on 12/07/2005 9:21:42 AM PST by moehoward
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