[Mamzelle]

re: You know, I don't have a horse in this race (I don't really believe in either) but the vigor with which opponents of ID are fighting this seems to be a bit extreme and over-the-top of late)))

Bump your post.

It's a turf war, pure and simple. Fear. They fear they'll lose the freedom to openly ridicule their own students, fear a loss of prestige, loss of postion--perhaps even loss of money, lest a grant find its way into the ID crowd.

You can get a pretty good idea how their students are treated by the way they behave here.

[Stultis]

It's a turf war, pure and simple. Fear. They fear they'll lose the freedom to openly ridicule their own students, fear a loss of prestige, loss of postion--perhaps even loss of money, lest a grant find its way into the ID crowd.

So, when Hare Krishna's try to get "transcendental meditation" into the public school curricula, we shouldn't fight a "turf war" against them?

Likewise we shouldn't fight a "turf war" against radical environmentalists who substitute scientific ecology with ideological environmentalism?

Indeed whenever curricula is reworked by ethnic, ideological or other "affinity" groups, we should simply stand aside?

Or is it only FOR YOUR AFFINITY GROUP that we should stand down? (Thought so.)

[2ndreconmarine]

It's a turf war, pure and simple. Fear. They fear they'll lose the freedom to openly ridicule their own students, fear a loss of prestige, loss of postion--perhaps even loss of money, lest a grant find its way into the ID crowd.

Oh yeah, I'm just shaking in my boots!!! LOL. Some ID'er snake oil salesman with an 8th grade education could really compete with me. This is beyond funny.

Here's why it is really funny. My personal publication record, all by myself, over the last ten years, exceeds all those published on ID by anyone anywhere. The entire scientific output of ID is less than just me. (And my peer review record isn't all that great, I tend to publish more in proceedings).

But these guys are going to take my programs??? Yeah, right.

[Virginia-American]

...lest a grant find its way into the ID crowd. ...

What would the IDers do with a grant? Could you please list some research that they propose that's on hold for lack of money? Why can't DI or ICR or Rev. Moon or the Wahhabis or suchlike fund research until the "theory" is developed enough to convince biologists?