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To: Right Wing Professor
Again: ID theory does NOT stand in opposition to most of evolutionary theory. ID theory addresses critical flaws in evolutionary theory that its materialist priesthood lacks the tools and intellectual desire to tackle.

Evolutionary theory is necessarily founded on the assumption that the universe has always existed (not in the Einsteinian sense, but the Newtonian sense). Evolutionary theory needs a forever universe in which to have sufficient time for random chance to do its magic.

It was the work of Einstein and modern physicists that destroyed the forever universe piffle and conceit of the evolutionists. The spectacular COBE results have since confirmed the existence of a cooling universe that was infinitely hot and dense less than 20 billion years ago. The forever universe is no more. That's a development that evolutionists desperately wish had never come along.

Geologists and geophysicists (Ward, Brownlee et al) have since pointed out the astonishing confluence of precise balances of physical forces that must exist to allow advanced life to flourish on earth. How did this happen in such an incredibly short span of time (less than 20 billion years)? Evolutionists have no answer. Their theory is too small and worldview too cramped to allow them to even address the question.

However, if we merely look around us (and isn't observation the prime imperative of the scientific method?) we see that human beings are able to plan and implement analogously intricate and precise balances in short time spans in laboratory and industrial settings. Is this a random and aimless process? Does a space shuttle appear by mankind waiting for one to appear organically from the soil through the action of survival of the fittest? No. Rather, human beings design a plant in which the conditions can be precisely controlled for materials to be brought together to form a completed vehicle. And they do this how? By employing organizing intelligence.

The influence of an organizing intelligence is the only force we know of in the material world that can balance the forces and create initial conditions necessary to allow something as complex as human life and derivative products ranging from arrowheads to space shuttles to form.

ID theory honestly and straightforwardly proffers by way of analogy that the best inference we can make about the existence of life is that an organizing intelligence set the initial conditions and devised the plans necessary for life to arise and evolve to the levels of present day complexity. It is the most logical and rational way, based on our observations, to explain how we got to where we are in less than 20 billion years.

ID theory makes no attempt to name or identify this organizing intelligence, although some ID adherents privately and personally might choose to identify the intelligence as Logos.

Evolutionists, on the other hand, quite clearly name and identify their organizing deity. It is none other than Chaos. Sadly for them, Chaos is only adequate to the task in a universe other than the universe that modern physics has disclosed to us.

38 posted on 12/03/2005 8:16:00 AM PST by JCEccles
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To: All
A few relevant goodies from The List-O-Links:

Statements from Scientific and Scholarly Organizations. Sixty statements, all supporting evolution.
Statement on the Teaching of Evolution. By the American Astronomical Society.
Letter from Bruce Alberts on March 4, 2005. President of the National Academy of Sciences.
Botanical Society of America's Statement on Evolution. Excellent statement.
Project Steve. Nat'l Center for Science Education: the overwhelming number of genuine scientists supporting evolution.
The "Clergy Letter Project". 10,000 clergymen endorse evolution.
Statements from Religious Organizations. In favor of evolution.

41 posted on 12/03/2005 8:24:56 AM PST by PatrickHenry (No response if you're a troll, lunatic, dotard, common scold, or incurable ignoramus.)
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To: JCEccles
"Evolutionary theory is necessarily founded on the assumption that the universe has always existed (not in the Einsteinian sense, but the Newtonian sense). Evolutionary theory needs a forever universe in which to have sufficient time for random chance to do its magic."

Nope. Natural selection is not random. Neither are the laws of nature.

"It was the work of Einstein and modern physicists that destroyed the forever universe piffle and conceit of the evolutionists. The spectacular COBE results have since confirmed the existence of a cooling universe that was infinitely hot and dense less than 20 billion years ago. The forever universe is no more. That's a development that evolutionists desperately wish had never come along."

Horse manure. The universe is far older than was ever considered by Darwin. In his day, the earth was supposed to be in the millions, not billions of years old.

"Geologists and geophysicists (Ward, Brownlee et al) have since pointed out the astonishing confluence of precise balances of physical forces that must exist to allow advanced life to flourish on earth. How did this happen in such an incredibly short span of time (less than 20 billion years)? Evolutionists have no answer. Their theory is too small and worldview too cramped to allow them to even address the question."

Evolution doesn't address the origins of life. Evolutionary biologists have *no answer* because the question is outside their theory. Try abiogenesis.

"ID theory makes no attempt to name or identify this organizing intelligence, although some ID adherents privately and personally might choose to identify the intelligence as Logos."

They do more than that, they refuse to say ANYTHING about the nature of the alleged designer. It can be anything and everything you can imagine. It has absolutely ZERO scientific value.

" Evolutionists, on the other hand, quite clearly name and identify their organizing deity. It is none other than Chaos."

This shows an incredible lack of knowledge on your part.
43 posted on 12/03/2005 8:34:44 AM PST by CarolinaGuitarman ("There is a grandeur in this view of life...")
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To: JCEccles
Again: ID theory does NOT stand in opposition to most of evolutionary theory. ID theory addresses critical flaws in evolutionary theory that its materialist priesthood lacks the tools and intellectual desire to tackle.

Nope. There are no such critical flaws, and ID's biggest proponets have said that it is scientific only in the sense that Astrology is scientific. It claims design can be detected, but has been unable to say how, refuses to say by whom they were designed or by what mechanism the design was implemented, and every now and then assures the true believers, wink wink, the designer is God.

You think we haven't figured this stuff out?

Evolutionary theory is necessarily founded on the assumption that the universe has always existed (not in the Einsteinian sense, but the Newtonian sense). Evolutionary theory needs a forever universe in which to have sufficient time for random chance to do its magic.

Utter and complete rubbish. Evolution incorporates the known age of the earth - approximately 4.5 billion years.

It was the work of Einstein and modern physicists that destroyed the forever universe piffle and conceit of the evolutionists. The spectacular COBE results have since confirmed the existence of a cooling universe that was infinitely hot and dense less than 20 billion years ago. The forever universe is no more. That's a development that evolutionists desperately wish had never come along.

This appears to be a product of your fertile imagination. In general, estimates of the age of the earth have increased with time, not decreased.

You're a true cultist. No matter how often your arguments are proven to be completely speciioous, you won't question your belief system.

ID theory honestly and straightforwardly proffers by way of analogy that the best inference we can make about the existence of life is that an organizing intelligence set the initial conditions and devised the plans necessary for life to arise and evolve to the levels of present day complexity. It is the most logical and rational way, based on our observations, to explain how we got to where we are in less than 20 billion years.

Except that we have absolutely no evidence any such process ever happened. One might as well say, that because the Panama canal and Suez canals exist, and it's the only example of a channel between two bodies of water we've ever seen to form, that all channels on the earth must have been dug by humans. What piffle!

Evolutionists, on the other hand, quite clearly name and identify their organizing deity. It is none other than Chaos. Sadly for them, Chaos is only adequate to the task in a universe other than the universe that modern physics has disclosed to us.

Crap.

62 posted on 12/03/2005 9:35:02 AM PST by Right Wing Professor
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To: JCEccles
Evolutionists, on the other hand, quite clearly name and identify their organizing deity. It is none other than Chaos.

Your whole post is a pack of non-sense. And there is no "ID Theory," they won't commit to whether the universe is 6000 years old, or 6 billion years old. All they say is, "It's too complicated." Well, it isn't.

287 posted on 12/03/2005 8:37:12 PM PST by MRMEAN (Suppose you were an idiot, and suppose you were a member of congress;but I repeat myself. Mark Twain)
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