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To: MHalblaub
Science isn't about compromises.

Perhaps not, but in a republic that lets people vote on school boards and laws, what gets taught in public schools is a matter of compromise.

It's about testing your hypothesis and theories. Therefore science as researchers understand it today is and will never be an unquestionable dogma.

In theory, that's fine. In practice, science is clouded by politics and other agendas. Some theories are more strongly supported than others, but they tend to get taught and absorbed as facts in public schools to many students who will never test or think deeply about those theories. As such, what's taught to most children, be it evolution and general relativity or global warming and enviro-pseduo-science, does get absorbed as unquestionable dogma, particularly if dissenting viewpoints are never presented.

And please don't forget that looking for evidence of irreducable complexity, even though no broadly convincing candidates have been found, is an attempt to test a hypothesis. Basically, it's looking for a system in which the odds of natural development are 0% since evolutionists assume that any chance greater than 0% is sufficient to assume that natural development through evolutoin occurred, thus placing all competing theories in the position of proving a negative. Is demanding that competing theories prove a negative (that the development of life didn't happen naturally through evolution) really testing a theory or is it assuming the theory is already proven and putting the burden of proof and testing on others?

"It's to complex ... therefore it's designed" is a dogma because "It's to complex" is dogmatic. The ID hypothesis is a dogma.

"It's too complex" is not dogmatic. It's a valid odds assessment when dealing with the unknown. So is your belief in the validity of evolution. You believe, that the preponderance of evidence makes evolution a legitimate explanation for all life on Earth. Other's look at the preponderance of evidence and, for a variety of reasons, do not. Similarly, SETI advocates look at the preponderance of evidence and think the odds are good enough that there is life on other planets that they actually go look for it. Others do not and think it's a waste of money. Some people think that the preponderance of evidence proves global warming while others do not.

You make it seem as if there is one right answer and one wrong answer when, in truth, the evidence does not provide 100% proof of any answer. Is it foolish to play the lottery? Someone looking only at the odds will usually tell you that it is. Yet some small number of those people foolish enough to take the bad gamble do walk away with millions while those too smart to play the lottery have no chance of winning. Similarly, the odds are slim that one will die in an airplane flight yet people do die in air accidents. Whether one considers air travel "safe" or not will depend on whether they emphasize or dismiss the risks.

As long as evolution remains a theory and not a fact, it's not unreasonable to buck the odds based on a gut feeling any more than it's unreasonable to play the lottery or avoid air travel. It's only seems unreasonable if your focus is only on the odds of winning or loosing rather than the pay off if you win or the cost if you lose.

208 posted on 12/09/2005 10:31:50 AM PST by Question_Assumptions
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To: Question_Assumptions
"Perhaps not, but in a republic that lets people vote on school boards and laws, what gets taught in public schools is a matter of compromise."

A school board is not above the law. Teaching some mythology as science harm the rights of others. ID has no scientific merits. You and others can call back if you got some.

"As such, what's taught to most children, be it evolution and general relativity or global warming and enviro-pseduo-science, does get absorbed as unquestionable dogma, particularly if dissenting viewpoints are never presented."

You have problems to differ some foundations. There are observed facts like time dilatation or evolution. There are theories like the theory of general relativity or the theory of evolution. Global warming is not a theory. It's just a possible outcome then you fit several theories together to one computer model.

"Is demanding that competing theories prove a negative (that the development of life didn't happen naturally through evolution) really testing a theory or is it assuming the theory is already proven and putting the burden of proof and testing on others?"

You probably know something about Ockham's razor. Then you claim life didn't happened through natural process you have to show an unnatural process. IC is not a proof for an unnatural process because you can reach an IC status via natural steps as I have shown you.

"You believe, that the preponderance of evidence makes evolution a legitimate explanation for all life on Earth."

Science is not about believes. It's about facts and explanations. Evolution is as long "a legitimate explanation for all life on Earth" as it fits to all evidences. Furthermore the theory of evolution will never be totally retracted like Newton's theory because its declarative power is so strong in many ways. ID needs an undetected unnatural causation where the theory of evolution only needs available natural laws.

The guys at SETI never forced or try to persuade someone to teach pupils their hypothesis that there are aliens out there in space.

"As long as evolution remains a theory and not a fact, it's not unreasonable to buck the odds based on a gut feeling any more than it's unreasonable to play the lottery or avoid air travel."

Evolution is a fact. Don't mix it up with the theory of evolution. We are talking about science and not a gut feeling. Every scientist needs to know a theory is only a description of mother nature. Trying to find something unnatural is not offensive just strange. The people at DI want to find a trace of god. That is strange.
209 posted on 12/12/2005 3:12:32 AM PST by MHalblaub (Tell me in four more years (No, I did not vote for Kerry))
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