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To Zap Illegals, Jail Those Who Hire Them
Atlanta Journal-Constitution ^ | 11/30.05 | Cynthia Tucker

Posted on 11/30/2005 8:40:01 AM PST by epow

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To: rey
Don't get me wrong; I'm not in favor of employing illegals, but why burden legitimate businesses with more?

Er, because they're the ones paying illegal immigrants to cross the border, and thus the driving force behind the problem?

Your comments about enforcement "not being your job" are certainly valid. But then again, you also have legal obligations to not break the law. The question is: how does one check the "legal" status of a person without imposing honerous overhead?

That's where the "guest worker" idea comes in. If a person is officially registered and in an official database; and that person provides you with documentation that can be verified against that database; then you have a simple "yes or no" approach to not hiring illegals. (It could also be tied in with your IRS reporting -- put these folks on the tax roles, too!)

21 posted on 11/30/2005 9:04:28 AM PST by r9etb
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To: epow

I have no problem if the law is written in a way the employeer is not held responsible if the employee uses fake documents. These are rampant. There is a small town of about 800 in Arkansas where about 8 years ago a big bust was done where fake papaers were being made. It is easy. There must be someway the employeer can check and be held not liable for someone else lying.


22 posted on 11/30/2005 9:04:47 AM PST by therut
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To: epow

This is a no brainer. If you dampen demand for cheap, illegal labor, the incentive to come here lessens. As usual, politics discourage direct, common sense solutions.


23 posted on 11/30/2005 9:06:07 AM PST by Spok (Est omnis de civilitate.)
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To: rey
Employers have specific legal responsibilities - if they suspect document fraud the police or immigration should be called. If someone gave you a bogus $100 bill you would call the police on them wouldn't you? And don't say I am being unrealistic - I married into a family that owned several vineyards in Fresno so I know the details on phony green cards first hand. It will take a number of policy changes (like requiring police to arrest and charge illegals when they find them) to make this work. Ending welfare as we know it would be another step in the right direction on the supply side, too. What this is really about is that farmers want cheap labor, and the politicians want farmers campaign contributions. Meanwhile the rest of us pay the costs that farmers don't.
24 posted on 11/30/2005 9:08:36 AM PST by RKV ( He who has the guns, makes the rules.)
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To: Tenacious 1

In Florida I think a true reform of worker's compensation would make a difference in the hiring practices of the Construction industry.


25 posted on 11/30/2005 9:14:18 AM PST by lastchance (Hug your babies.)
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To: epow
If the costs of doing business wasn't so high in America, employers wouldn't need to hire illegals.

And if Bush would uphold his constitutional oath of office and defend the borders, there wouldn't be any problems.

Cynthia Tucker is wrong as usual, as well as some of her dittoheads on this thread.

26 posted on 11/30/2005 9:15:19 AM PST by Extremely Extreme Extremist (JOE WILSON IS A MUTHAFAKING LIAR)
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To: Tenacious 1
But it is cost prohibitive to do background checks in industries where profits are tight, risk is high and wages are low.

Cry me a river. Your statement above screams like an admission ticket to cross the border and come work for YOU.

27 posted on 11/30/2005 9:15:38 AM PST by JoeSixPack1
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To: bordergal; rey; Tenacious 1
There is a way to double check the SSN and name to make sure they match

How hard could it be to check and see if the name matches the social security number being provided by a prospective employee? Both CIS and the SSA have programs.

Systematic Alien Verification for Entitlements (SAVE) Program

Social Security Number Verification

28 posted on 11/30/2005 9:18:09 AM PST by DumpsterDiver
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To: r9etb

Okay doke. Before anyone boards a bus, train, or plane, make it a taxi too; one must prove their citizenship; afterall transporting illegals is a crime. Also, I do not think people or car dealers should sell cars to illegals, they would almost certrainly be used for the same purpose.

You do not need to prove citizenship to get a contractor's license, so home owners should ascertain that the contractor they use is legit. For that matter many autoshops and restaurants are owned by illegals; patronizing these services is the same as hiring them.

The deal is these folks that advocate this type of enforcement have no problems placing burdens on businesses and large businesses usually don't mind because these burdens squeeze out little guys. That's why they call for employers to insure employees, aid in housing and to basically play daddy to their employees. I provide a quality product at a competitive price, by doing so you eat, my employees eat and the world is bettered.


29 posted on 11/30/2005 9:19:33 AM PST by rey
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To: rey
Okay doke. Before anyone boards a bus, train, or plane, make it a taxi too; one must prove their citizenship; afterall transporting illegals is a crime.

Yes, let's do get silly about it. People don't come here illegally to ride taxis. They do come here illegally to take the jobs being offered to them by Americans.

It's irrational to express concern about illegal immigration, and then refuse to address the root of the problem.

30 posted on 11/30/2005 9:23:13 AM PST by r9etb
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To: Tenacious 1

Thats a copout and you know it everything you need is on one national data base or another. Sounds like you don't want to take the time to ensure you are hiring legals or do they come higher.


31 posted on 11/30/2005 9:26:27 AM PST by snowman1
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To: 1_Inch_Group; 2sheep; 2Trievers; 3AngelaD; 4Freedom; 4ourprogeny; 7.62 x 51mm; A CA Guy; ...

ping


32 posted on 11/30/2005 9:26:38 AM PST by gubamyster
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To: RKV

"Meanwhile the rest of us pay the costs that farmers don't"

One way or the other, yes. I'm happy to sell you a $40 hamburger. I think our politicians behave the way they do for economic reasons; we spend about 9% of our income on food (third world nations average about 60%). To upset this balance will cause us to spend more on subsistence and less on the other junk that drives our economy (read depression like conditions). Bad politically speaking as most people have no problem spending the balance of their income on frivolous entertainment. This is also why freenig trade is important to the politicians, let the thrid world feed us, keep the illegals at home, free farm land up for open space, control property more, etc.

What bothers me is I consider our self reliance on food a BIG national security issue. We get weird when oil is threatened, imagine the food supply threatened.


33 posted on 11/30/2005 9:26:51 AM PST by rey
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To: epow
Damn, I too will check for a new star in the east, never thought such a day would dawn when CT would actually make sense.
34 posted on 11/30/2005 9:35:27 AM PST by Ursus arctos horribilis ("It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees!" Emiliano Zapata 1879-1919)
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To: r9etb

Yeah. let's get silly. When you buy things you will buy what's cheapest assuming quality is comprable. That is why Wal Mart does well (among other reasons). I have Pedro, paper work seemingly intact, wants to pick for $1 a tub, or a machine for $250,000 (if a machine will work on the terrain and the winery accepts machine picked). I have no other alternative. At $50 a tub white folks wouldn't show up to work and no one wants to pay 10 times more for the end product.

I would love to do without these guys, and eventually we will, if worker comp and labor laws continue the way thbey are. But to remain competitive we do what we can within the law.

I have a better idea; be a responsible consumer. Don't patronize businesses known for hiring illegals and make it known. When I can't sell something, I will cease to try or change. Stop making the governemnt be your working concious.
(I may sound sharp, but I really appreciate your reply, thanks)


35 posted on 11/30/2005 9:36:29 AM PST by rey
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To: DumpsterDiver
Instead, Bush focused on fences and raids and deportations.

Bush said nothing of the sort. I bet Tucker did not even hear/watch the speech.

36 posted on 11/30/2005 9:36:46 AM PST by KC_Conspirator (This space outsourced to India)
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To: epow

Sterilize and deport. Sneaking into the US will quickly become unpopular among Mexicans. And the ones who try it won't be able to spawn another, bigger generation of illegal border crossers.


37 posted on 11/30/2005 9:38:37 AM PST by GovernmentShrinker
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To: Tenacious 1
You spout pure unadulterated BS. Employers on the cheap don't want to check out their illegal employee's back grounds.
38 posted on 11/30/2005 9:38:57 AM PST by Ursus arctos horribilis ("It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees!" Emiliano Zapata 1879-1919)
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To: rey

Sorry Rey, but I think there are a few holes in your argument. 1) We now export food - we have excess capacity for our needs. 2) We now produce enough oil to produce food for ourselves - it would be tough, but "do-able." And time favors changeover to other fuels. 3) I am already paying the rest of the cost of the hamburger in taxes. I want to know what it really costs me so I can come up with alternatives, if I find the cost too high. I also want others to pay for what they use, and I only want to pay for what I use, I don't want to subsidize them. 4) As far as free trade goes I agree with you. In the mean time the finances in our schools, hospitals and jails will improve without the presence of illegal immigrants. In net, the tradeoffs for American citizens are in favor of sending illegal immigrants home.


39 posted on 11/30/2005 9:39:33 AM PST by RKV ( He who has the guns, makes the rules.)
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To: snowman1

Who pays for the data base? You? Me? Business? Either way, it's you and me (taxes and higher prices).

You're right; I don'twant to do it. I have enough to do. Over 70% of my time is spent on compliance issues and here we are talking about adding another. My job is to produce a quality product at a competitive price; not appease government flunkies by filling out their forms and sending them money to show I comply. You can influence how I do my job with your consumer dollar much more.


40 posted on 11/30/2005 9:41:51 AM PST by rey
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