Posted on 11/29/2005 7:21:12 PM PST by 11th_VA
PRESIDENT George Bush has proposed offering the estimated 13 million illegal immigrants in the US three-year guest-worker visas.
Mr Bush said his plan did not amount to an amnesty for illegal migrants, almost 1 million of whom are estimated to enter the US from Mexico each year.
In a speech in Tucson, Arizona, near the Mexican border, he said illegal immigration was "a serious challenge and our responsibility is clear — to protect the border.
"The American people should not have to choose between a welcoming society and a lawful society," he said. "We can have both at the same time."
Under the proposal, the visas could be renewed for another three years if the migrants returned to their country of origin to apply.
Mr Bush announced his visa plan after saying that his Administration would beef up security along the 3200-kilometre border with Mexico and introduce the automatic detention of non-Mexican illegal immigrants, most of them from Central America, who in the past have been picked up, charged with immigration offences and then set free.
"When the date arrives for them to appear, 75 per cent of those released don't show up in court," he said.
"This practice of catch and release has been the government's policy for decades. It is an unwise policy and we're going to end it."
The Republican Party is divided over the issue of illegal migrants.
The vast majority of illegal immigrants enter the US from Mexico with the help of organised rings or family members and friends already in America. Hundreds die each year attempting the crossing from Mexico into Arizona, many of them from the harsh conditions in the desert.
The business wing of the Republican Party has lobbied hard for another amnesty on illegal immigrants, arguing that the economy would be badly damaged if there were a serious attempt to send back to Mexico millions of people who are prepared to do the jobs that Americans are not willing to do.
The illegal immigrants form the majority of America's 2 million farm workers and a significant proportion of construction labourers and service industry workers. They are mainly paid just above the minimum wage and generally do not receive health care or pension benefits. The US offered illegal migrants an amnesty in 1986 during the Reagan administration, when 3 million applied.
But the numbers arriving over the past decade have grown, leaving many Americans alarmed.
Polls have consistently shown that more than 65 per cent of Americans, most of them Republican voters, view illegal immigration as a top-ranking issue and a danger to US security.
With polls showing his support at a record low, Mr Bush has shifted ground on immigration since a key speech in January in which he said illegal immigrants were of fundamental importance to the US economy and deserved the chance to try to better themselves and their families and to become Americans.
The US Congress has spent much of this year battling to come up with an immigration bill that would receive majority support, but congressional leaders announced in October that the immigration debate would be adjourned until early next year.
Most conservative Republicans, especially in border states such as Arizona and Texas, are likely to reject Mr Bush's work visa proposal for illegal immigrants, which many see as a back-door amnesty.
Texas senator Kay Bailey, who represents the views of many Republicans in Congress, said illegal immigrants should be sent home before they could apply for guest-worker visas.
"We have to reward people who come legally and we do need certain types of workers," she said. "But we have to know who is in this country."
I'm sorry .. but please point out where I even mentioned them in my post
IF you had bothered to read it .. I said college students
Though I may often disagree with you, and don't share your desire to defend the Administration on this and several other issues, I always admire your reasonable, measured approach to things.
Thank you
You're welcome.
I don't know how much of this crap I can take. The borders are a huge issue. Bush is derelict in his duty and our nation is suffering because of it. I wish their was a viable way to exercise my frustration, but their really isn't. What am I going to do, vote dem? Of course not. Bush and the other soft on the border republicans know this and take us for granted.
BTW .. we do agree on the main issue .. we just have a difference of opinion of how to deal with the problem
One of the great things about our country ..
We have the right and freedom to have one and debate or views
grrr
or views = our views
"PRESIDENT George Bush has proposed offering the estimated 13 million illegal immigrants in the US three-year guest-worker visas.
Mr Bush said his plan did not amount to an amnesty for illegal migrants, almost 1 million of whom are estimated to enter the US from Mexico each year. "
Bush has lost all touch with reality on this subject. I hope to God the American Public and the Republican Party are NEVER afflicted with another individual from that clan.
His intransigence in reassessing this unpopular stand on illegal invaders will cost us heavily in the 2006 and 2008 elections if the Dems are shrewd enough to exploit it, and people like Tancredo and those who think like him are unable to force sanity on this President reagrding this inflammatory issue.
I don't want illegal aliens here. Its the President's job to stop them from coming in here. If his best response is this lame offer of amnesty, he doesn't deserve to have any support whatsoever on this issue.
You betcha.
Mo1 said:
Oh .. and if mommy and daddy don't pick up the tab for not working .. the government will through welfare and social programs
Why work when you don't have to??
Yep .. there are many that won't do the work
Times have changed ... In my day, teenagers or college students would work many of these jobs to earn money
Now a days .. many don't because mommy and daddy pay their way and they don't have to work
________
Looks like a blatant condemnation of all our youth to me.
Youth .. Yes
military .. No
Our military works
But hey ... keep digging for things I didn't say
They're already prepping one of the nephews, and he's busy bashing our Border Patrol when he goes on trips down south. After the Clintons take their turn in the WH again, guess who's up?
"Jeb" or "Jed" or whatever, showed what he was made of in the incident involving that poor starving woman in Florida.
Some two bit local judge and Sheriff stared and Jeb blinked.
I's sooner vote for a sidewinder than for him.
I really doubt if another Bush could ever get nominated by the Republican Party. If one does, I know a lot of conservatives who will sit on their hands or vote for a third party candidate.
Bush I was bad and his son has been hardly better, except in foreign policy - and even there, even only when compared with the probable action of any Democrat - except Zell Miller - but he's not running (unfortunately).
“Speaking in a mix of English and sometimes-halting Spanish, George P. Bush said his uncle was not to blame for the gun policy, which has angered Mexicans. He instead blamed it on ‘some local INS guy who’s trying to be tough, act macho.’”
Bush went further in defaming the character of our Border Patrol agents and their supervisors: “If there has been American approval for this policy, that is reprehensible,” George P. Bush said of the guns, essentially paintball projectiles filled with chile powder. “It’s kind of barbarous.”
"Cooperation? From the Mexicans? About the only cooperation we'll get from them is to send us more illegals."
Mexico doesn't "send" illegals to us. Their government is so corrupt, some of the people WANT to get out.
Speaking of agriculture, I think there's a lot more to it than that. Today's ^corporate^ farming is much larger in scale and more competitive than the family farms were when we were young and worked the fields with our parents. Large labor intensive farming companies cannot use young unreliable teenagers or college students as laborers.
For example, the tree fruit growers in Central California depend on large crews of mostly immigrant workers. The crews work ten hours per day, six days per week and they are highly skilled and efficient in their work. The crews and contractors may or may not be direct employees of the growers using their services. Labor contractors in many cases work for many growers on many farms. The crews move from field to field, farm to farm as the work is needed. They load up and are transported by the foremen or contractors as needed. They start before day break and end sometimes after sundown. It's the most efficient way to supply a large reliable labor force and works out well for all involved. Unless they want to live in a labor camp for the season, I don't think this would work out well for young people.
I am opposed to illegal immigration and when I was working in the ag industry thought it was pretty much under control. Among other things, we supplied growers and packing houses with payroll software. I've written software for and helped get out many farm and or labor contractor payrolls. In those days, we programmed in checks to catch illegals. Number one, they had to have a valid non-duplicate social security number. They also had to have valid INS documentation. No valid social security card or INS documentation, no work, no paycheck. Any illegals were rejected and couldn't even get assigned to a work crew. And I don't think we had many illegals. Had some try to get in with forged documents, but that didn't work very well for them.
Can't speak for other states or industries, but if there was suddenly no immigrant farm labor available to our growers, I believe the entire farming system and farming economy of California would collapse. And that would probably collapse the entire California economy... and that in turn might collapse the entire US economy. Whether it would or not, if there are any winners, they would probably be in Chile and or other farm producing countries. America would be the big loser.
This is why I believe a guest worker program (at least for farming) would be feasible if not ideal. The employers requesting temporary immigrant workers would be similar to the labor contractors I used to work with. A system could be developed where the labor contractors (or large growers) could work with the immigration service to recruit reliable laborers as needed. The background check and paperwork would all be done at the immigration service and each certified temporary worker would join a contractor or grower's workforce. His info would be recorded in both the immigration database and the employer's database. The employers would have confidence that his entire workforce is legal and our immigration service would have a reliable system of tracking the temporary workers.
The employer's payroll service would automatically track all monies earned and report all taxes, deductions, social security, union fees or whatever back to the immigration service. The time in country and current location of the individual immigrants would also be tracked. If someone goes "AWOL" beyond a specified time limit, it would be known immediately and the now illegal immigrant could be located and deported or dealt with accordingly. The contractors or employers would be responsible for the training, housing, transportation and well being of his people. If the work drys up for any extended period of time and there are no other employers or contractors needing the labor, the immigrant would have to return home.
Also, I believe if such a system were possible, then there would definitely be an advantage for the immigrant to be here legally. He'd be assured of a steady job, housing, transportation, etc, and wouldn't have to fear being taken advantage of by coyotes and other unscrupulous operators. Also, illegals would be easier to spot, catch and deport. I think the market for illegals would soon dry up.
I know, I know. If only Americans were allowed to take these jobs then none of this would be necessary. If suddenly today there were no immigrants, then the price of farm labor would likely double or triple and even our highly educated people (comparatively speaking) would troop out to the fields to prune trees and vines and pick fruit and grapes in the hot sun for 10 hours per day 6 days per week. Well, wait a minute, just recruit more workers then they wouldn't have to work such long hours. And provide shade so it's not so hot. But, whatever, someone had better be there to harvest the fruit when it's ready or else the grower goes under, etc, etc, etc.
Good Post Jim and Thank you for your input
Check yesterday's posts by DJ Drummond and Jayson......This excellent group blog has been posting some good, serious debate in the last couple of weeks on the issue of illegal immigration and enforcement.
The situation here now is that illegal alien Mexicans are shoving American citizens out of their blue-collar jobs by working for less, working for cash, paying few taxes, overloading our schools, closing our hospitals, and burdening our social service system.
These are vital issues that impact every one of us especially in the invaded border states, and that is one of the big reasons why we strongly believe that "cheap lettuce", like some argue about, doesn't really matter when we're facing the bigger picture of our crumbling infrastructure and the downward spiral of our wages in the blue collar industries because of illegal aliens who shouldn't even be here anyway. We are painfully aware that we cannot continue to pay the billions of dollars every year to support invaders, either through state taxes or federal taxes.
If employers want to hire slave labor, it is THEY who should be responsible for their medical care and their food stamps and the support of their children, NOT American taxpayers.
If this is done, the idea of slave labor won't be so enticing to the greedy employers. The President doesn't mention this huge fact in any of his speeches, i.e., the fact that supporting illegal aliens IS NOT the responsibility of American taxpayers.
By turning his back on American taxpayers/workers, the President is making many enemies in his own base. We're not being fairly represented, either by him or by those in Congress who are supposed to be representing us, not Mexico.
There are too many issues in his "plan" (and other plans) that are not addressed.
There are 3.6 million visa overstays in this country that the "system" can't locate. I'm not confident this bureaucracy will be any better at enforcing a new plan.
Would it be alright to try to deport the ones that are not working? Pew states about half of illegals don't work at all.
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