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Vatican Considers Dropping "Limbo"
ANSA.it ^ | 11-29-2005 | unknown

Posted on 11/29/2005 3:42:52 PM PST by Claud

Vatican considers dropping 'limbo'

Theologians meet to look again at fate of unbaptised tots

(ANSA) - Vatican City, November 29 - The Catholic Church appears set to definitively drop the concept of limbo, the place where it has traditionally said children's souls go if they die before being baptised .

Limbo has been part of Catholic teaching since the 13th century and is depicted in paintings by artists such as Giotto and in important works of literature such as Dante's Divine Comedy .

But an international commission of Catholic theologians is meeting in the Vatican this week to draw up a new report for Pope Benedict XVI on the question. The report is widely expected to advise dropping it from Catholic teaching .

The pope made known his doubts about limbo in an interview published in 1984, when he was Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, head of the Vatican's doctrinal department .

"Limbo has never been a defined truth of faith," he said. "Personally, speaking as a theologian and not as head of the Congregation, I would drop something that has always been only a theological hypothesis." According to Italian Vatican watchers, the reluctance of theologians to even use the word limbo was clear in the way the Vatican referred in its official statement to the question up for discussion .

The statement referred merely to "the Fate of Children who Die Without Baptism" .

Benedict's predecessor, John Paul II, gave the commission the task of looking at the issue again in 2004. He asked experts to come up with a "theological synthesis" able to make the Church's approach "more coherent and illuminated" .

In fact, when John Paul II promulgated the updated version of the Catholic Church's catechism in 1992 there was no mention of the word limbo .

That document gave no clear answer to the question of what happened to children who died before being baptised .

It said: "The Church can only entrust them to the mercy of God...In fact the great mercy of God, who wants all men to be saved, and the tenderness of Jesus towards children... allow us to hope that there is a way of salvation for children who die without baptism." This view is in stark contrast to what Pope Pius X said in an important document in 1905: "Children who die without baptism go into limbo, where they do not enjoy God, but they do not suffer either, because having original sin, and only that, they do not deserve paradise, but neither hell or purgatory." According to teaching from the 13th century on, limbo was also populated by the prophets and patriarchs of Israel who lived in the time before Jesus Christ .


TOPICS: Culture/Society
KEYWORDS: baptism; catholic; hell; limbo; madeuptheology; notinbible; theology
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To: TruthShallSetYouFree
OK guys, who will come out and defend limbo?

Bill Clinton. He thinks it's a combination of a limo and a bimbo.

We have a winner, ladies and gentlemen!

101 posted on 11/29/2005 4:46:09 PM PST by Zionist Conspirator (Vehe'emin BeHaShem, vayachsheveha lo tzedaqah.)
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To: impatient
You're probably right, but please explain.

I can only state an opinion which has no theological (that I am aware of) basis, but maybe, just maybe, they are moving towards saying that children who have been aborted, or murdered before they were born, may go to heaven if God, being the almighty knows what choice those children would have made if given the chance.

Its a question that a few folks have asked, what happens to the souls all of those poor children who were killed before they even got a chance to accept or reject God?

Did those who were terminated, go to heaven, hell or were they in limbo?

This might be an answer to the question or at least setting up the foundation to answer the question of the fate of those souls who were aborted.

102 posted on 11/29/2005 4:47:14 PM PST by Sonny M ("oderint dum metuant")
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To: sinkspur
Limbo's a less-than-adequate response to "what to do with unbaptized infants"? Can't put them in hell, since they never committed any actual sins.

That's incorrect, sinkspur. You can put them in Hell, beccause Hell is not *necessarily* a place of punishment and natural suffering.

But, limbo says they can't go to heaven either, substituting an absurd notion of a place of "natural happiness" for souls that were made for God.

Why is it absurd? Even the pagans believed as much.

103 posted on 11/29/2005 4:47:46 PM PST by Claud
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To: Dionysiusdecordealcis
so you are wrong on both counts:

I never claimed (1) that the Church is abandoning something it taught or (2) that what is being abandoned is theologically erroneous. So I am wrong on neither count.

My point had to do with the fallacious reasoning that would call all the Church's teachings into question, since we ourselves rightly do not abandon all our own beliefs when we discover ourselves to have been in error regarding a certain matter. The a fortiori conclusion regarding matters of mere speculation is plain.

-A8

104 posted on 11/29/2005 4:48:47 PM PST by adiaireton8 ("There is no greater evil one can suffer than to hate reasonable discourse." - Plato, Phaedo 89d)
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To: livius
I had a stillborn child - whom we named Benedict Joseph - and I have always been happy with the concept of Limbo. Reasonably speaking, it must exist, because God is a merciful God.

If He were that merciful, He'd make sure your little one would spend eternity with you and his family rather than in Limbo.

105 posted on 11/29/2005 4:49:07 PM PST by mtbopfuyn (Legality does not dictate morality... Lavin)
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To: RockyMtnMan
God already knows the choices you are going to make because he is not a corporeal being.

I understand that. The theological problem with the fate of those who die before reaching the age of reason is that they cannot make a decision for which they can be held morally responsible. God's "foreknowledge" would not change that.

106 posted on 11/29/2005 4:49:49 PM PST by Aquinasfan (Isaiah 22:22, Rev 3:7, Mat 16:19)
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To: null and void
"Please don't sqeeze de mangos,
Please don't squeeze de mangos.
All de mangos ripe and sweet,
Please don't squeeze de mang-os!"
107 posted on 11/29/2005 4:49:56 PM PST by Bloody Sam Roberts (This is my tagline. There are many like it but this one is mine.)
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To: Claud

Day-O!


108 posted on 11/29/2005 4:50:28 PM PST by BunnySlippers
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To: My2Cents
If "limbo" is dropped from Catholic theology, that means that the Catholic Church has been in error about this teaching for some 7+ centuries....Which prompts the question: what else does the church teach that's in error?

It can't be dropped, because it was never officially picked up. Catholics have always been free to believe in it or not believe in it as they saw fit. If the Church ever rules one way or the other, it would settle the question, not change it's mind.

109 posted on 11/29/2005 4:50:29 PM PST by Claud
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To: livius

We can take comfort in the fact that we worship a loving a just God.


110 posted on 11/29/2005 4:50:29 PM PST by gscc
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To: Bushman2

You do have your personal religious beliefs, but I do not appreciate having them shouted at me...shouting does not make your beliefs any more substantial or effective...


111 posted on 11/29/2005 4:50:33 PM PST by andysandmikesmom
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To: Knute
Perhaps they will also examine the concept of Purgatory.

The existence of purgatory is a de fide dogma of the Catholic faith, and is not up for discussion.

Limbo is a well-respected theological opinion, but has never been raised to the level of dogma.

112 posted on 11/29/2005 4:50:52 PM PST by Campion ("I am so tired of you, liberal church in America" -- Mother Angelica, 1993)
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To: mtbopfuyn

Non sequitur.


113 posted on 11/29/2005 4:50:54 PM PST by adiaireton8 ("There is no greater evil one can suffer than to hate reasonable discourse." - Plato, Phaedo 89d)
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To: Claud
Perhaps Limbo is just a phase in the afterlife of a baby who dies unbaptised, rather than a place where such a child would remain for all eternity. What do you think?
114 posted on 11/29/2005 4:51:11 PM PST by utahagen
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To: ShadowDancer
That is incredibly absurd.

Except that it follows logically from the premises.

115 posted on 11/29/2005 4:51:54 PM PST by Aquinasfan (Isaiah 22:22, Rev 3:7, Mat 16:19)
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To: manwiththehands

I don't either. They are in Paradise with their Creator.


116 posted on 11/29/2005 4:52:12 PM PST by Larry Lucido
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To: GovernmentShrinker
The Church would do well to drop the concept of papal infallibility next. Amazing how that lingers in official doctrine, no matter how many pronouncements of various past popes get neutralized.

How many of those "neutralized" pronouncements met the conditions required for an infallible statement, as laid out by Vatican Council I?

Papal infallibility, like purgatory, is defined dogma, and will never be changed.

117 posted on 11/29/2005 4:52:39 PM PST by Campion ("I am so tired of you, liberal church in America" -- Mother Angelica, 1993)
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To: Claud

First the Limbo next the Hokey-Pokey.


118 posted on 11/29/2005 4:52:59 PM PST by samm1148
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To: Campion
Nobody deserves paradise except through the merits of Christ.

Amen......." For by Grace are we saved THROUGH FAITH, that not of OURSELVES; it is a GIFT of GOD, not of WORKS, lest any man should boast". Ephesians 2:8

119 posted on 11/29/2005 4:53:40 PM PST by pollywog (Psalm 121;1 I Lift my eyes to the hills from whence cometh my help.)
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To: Larry Lucido
Sainthood is another one. No church can "confer" sainthood. Ya either is or ya ain't one.

Yes, I believe we understand that. What is "conferred" is the public and formal recognition that a person is in heaven. God does the real work.

120 posted on 11/29/2005 4:54:22 PM PST by Campion ("I am so tired of you, liberal church in America" -- Mother Angelica, 1993)
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