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Commuting By Bus In Denver? Papers, Please
Papers Please ^ | 11/18/2005 | Deborah Davus

Posted on 11/29/2005 11:48:43 AM PST by Wallace T.

DEB DAVIS LIKES to commute to work by public bus. She uses the time to read, crochet or pay bills. It's her quiet time. What with the high price of gas, she saves money, too: a week's worth of gas money gets her a month's worth of bus rides.

The bus she rides crosses the property of the Denver Federal Center, a collection of government offices such as the Veterans Administration, the U.S. Geological Survey, and part of the National Archives. The Denver Federal Center is not a high security area: it's not Area 51 or NORAD.

On her first day commuting to work by bus, the bus stopped at the gates of the Denver Federal Center. A security guard got on and demanded that all of the passengers on this public bus produce ID. She was surprised by the demand of the man in uniform, but she complied: it would have meant a walk of several miles if she hadn't. Her ID was not taken and compared to any "no-ride" list. The guard barely glanced at it.

When she got home, what had happened on the bus began to bother her. 'This is not a police state or communist Russia', she thought. From her 8th grade Civics class she knew there is no law requiring her, as an American citizen, to carry ID or any papers, much less show them to anyone on a public bus.

She decided she would no longer show her ID on the bus.

The Compliance Test

On Monday, September 26th 2005, Deb Davis headed off to work on the route 100 bus. When the bus got to the gates of the Denver Federal Center, a guard got on and asked her if she had an ID. She answered in the affirmative. He asked if he could see it. She said no.
hen the guard asked why she wouldn't show her ID, Deb told him that she didn't have to do so. The guard then ordered her off the bus. Deb refused, stating she was riding a public bus and just trying to get to work.

The guard then went to call his supervisor, and returned shortly with a federal policeman. The federal cop then demanded her ID. Deb politely explained once again that she would not show her ID, and she was simply commuting to work. He left, returning shortly thereafter with a second policeman in tow.

The Second Compliance Test

This second cop asked the same question and got the same answer: no showing of ID, no getting off the bus.

The cop was also annoyed with the fact that she was on the phone with a friend and didn't feel like hanging up, even when he 'ordered' her to do so.

The second cop said everyone had to show ID any time they were asked by the police, adding that if she were in a Wal-Mart and was asked by the police for ID, that she would have to show it there, too.

She explained that she didn't have to show him or any other policeman my ID on a public bus or in a Wal-Mart. She told him she was simply trying to go to work.

The Arrest

Suddenly, the second policeman shouted "Grab her!" and he grabbed the cell phone from her and threw it to the back of the bus. With each of the policemen wrenching one of her arms behind her back, she was jerked out of her seat, the contents of her purse and book bag flying everywhere. The cops shoved her out of the bus, handcuffed her, threw her into the back seat of a police cruiser, and drove her to a police station inside the confines of the Denver Federal Center.

Once inside, she was taken down a hall and told to sit in a chair, still handcuffed, while one of the policemen went through her purse, now retrieved from the bus.

The two policemen sat in front of their computers, typing and conferring, trying to figure out what they should charge her with. Eventually, they wrote up several tickets, took her outside and removed the handcuffs, returned her belongings, and pointed her toward the bus stop. She was told that if she ever entered the Denver Federal Center again, she would go to jail.

She hasn't commuted by public bus since that day.


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Government; US: Colorado
KEYWORDS: civilliberties; policepowers; policestate
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No one who believes in the foundational principles that this republic was built upon cannot but sympathize with this woman and the overreach of Federal authorities in this matter.

This abuse cannot be justified by the so-called War on Terror. Deborah Davis is a 50 year old, blonde haired white woman. Her son is serving his country in the military in Iraq.

1 posted on 11/29/2005 11:48:44 AM PST by Wallace T.
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To: Wallace T.

Was she arrested because;
a) she refused to show ID while riding a public bus, or
b) she refused to show ID upon entry to the Federal Center properties?

I suspect it was b), but I shudder to think it could one day be a).


2 posted on 11/29/2005 11:52:07 AM PST by SJSAMPLE
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To: Wallace T.

This is going to cost us taxpayers a fortune once she gets a lawyer and sues.AWB


3 posted on 11/29/2005 11:53:00 AM PST by Americanwolfsbrother (Don't hate on someone for using their mind.)
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To: SJSAMPLE

B is the correct answer.


4 posted on 11/29/2005 11:53:37 AM PST by Wallace T.
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To: Wallace T.

OK, what in the love God is going on? This is really getting out of control. The USA is becoming a police state.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1530313/posts

Alot of people think that the idea of another civil war in America is crazy, but if things keep going this way.....
keep your powder dry.


5 posted on 11/29/2005 11:55:56 AM PST by frankiep
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To: Wallace T.

A lot of the statists here will deny this, but one of the biggest issues causing the original revolution was colonists being stopped and seized over improper documentation.

Of course most colonists had no documentation of any sort, so the redcoats could just seize anyone.

We're beyond what our fathers would tolerate in many areas.


6 posted on 11/29/2005 11:57:11 AM PST by the gillman@blacklagoon.com
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To: SJSAMPLE

The bus went through or past federal property as part of its route. She had no intention to disembark there.


7 posted on 11/29/2005 11:58:50 AM PST by the gillman@blacklagoon.com
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To: Wallace T.

I'm just sort of deeply confused over her not actually taking the bus TO this Federal Center, but the bus has to pass through it and they look at everyone's ID.

Not that I ride the bus at all but DC and Maryland are of course covered by Federal property and I'm unaware of similar practices for public buses here.


8 posted on 11/29/2005 11:59:36 AM PST by Strategerist
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To: Wallace T.
blonde haired white woman

Would it have made a difference if she was brunette?

9 posted on 11/29/2005 12:00:51 PM PST by hedgie
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To: Wallace T.

IIRC there was a Federal (supreme?) court decision a few years ago that held you have to produce ID if asked to do so by the police.


10 posted on 11/29/2005 12:01:10 PM PST by saganite (The poster formerly known as Arkie 2)
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To: Wallace T.

The question is, do they actually have the athourity to do this?


11 posted on 11/29/2005 12:02:12 PM PST by Khepera (Do not remove by penalty of law!)
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Comment #12 Removed by Moderator

To: Wallace T.

Didn't SCOTUS rule that it is acceptable for police to ask for ID without a reason?


13 posted on 11/29/2005 12:03:17 PM PST by doc30 (Democrats are to morals what and Etch-A-Sketch is to Art.)
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To: the gillman@blacklagoon.com
We're beyond what our fathers would tolerate in many areas.

Correct. The United States fought an all out war in World War II. Except for young men of draft age, who were subject to questioning by MPs or local police, I am not aware of any restrictions on travel, except in the unfortunate case of the Japanese-Americans. There were fifth columnists in the country: members of the German-American Bund and assorted groups of home-grown fascists such as the Silver Shirts. However, these potential subversives were controlled through police and FBI infiltration and surveillance.

If we fought World War II without demanding ID of everyone on a random basis, we can fight the Muslim terrorists without reverting to a police state mentality.

14 posted on 11/29/2005 12:05:20 PM PST by Wallace T.
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To: the gillman@blacklagoon.com

I'm sure she didn't, but she was present on that property.

Still, I can't quite figure a public bus that passes through a restricted area in that manner.


15 posted on 11/29/2005 12:05:25 PM PST by SJSAMPLE
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To: the gillman@blacklagoon.com

You have to go through a metal detector in the city and county building too.....if she was an ileagal..she would have been ok..I think it was stupid for her to ba a jerk..either we find out the terrorists before they find us


16 posted on 11/29/2005 12:06:56 PM PST by Youngman442002
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To: saganite

Not necessarily show ID, but you have to identify yourself.

IIRC, the plaintiff was asked by a police officer to identify himself, and the plaintiff refused (wouldn't even verbally give his name). I don't recall specifics about identification requirements in the case, but since you're not required to carry ID, I don't think it mattered.


17 posted on 11/29/2005 12:07:34 PM PST by SJSAMPLE
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To: Wallace T.

I do take solace that this ID check was only required for buses crossing govt property, but considering the National ID card in the works, I doubt such checks will only stay on government property. Especially if certain politicians want to increase the government workforce/labor union by employing thousands of nearly useless security personnel.


18 posted on 11/29/2005 12:08:02 PM PST by Dumb_Ox (Hoc ad delectationem stultorum scriptus est)
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To: Wallace T.
Bill of Rights? WHAT Bill of Rights?

It's been renamed the Bill of Government Inconveniences and declared null and void.

19 posted on 11/29/2005 12:08:21 PM PST by Lazamataz (When life gives you lemons, kick it in the shins and take its wallet.)
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To: Youngman442002

I hope she doesn't try to get on a plane.....or go to France for that matter..they want ID also


20 posted on 11/29/2005 12:09:00 PM PST by Youngman442002
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