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Live Thread - Anybody Watching W's Speech On Immigration - Only on Fox (Vanity)
Fox News Channel | 11/28/05 | Self

Posted on 11/28/2005 1:55:47 PM PST by TCats

They say better late than never but......


TOPICS: Culture/Society; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: aliens; bush43; cz; davismonthanafb; heslyingagain; immigrantlist; immigration; immigrationplan; term2; w; whatplan
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To: Political Junkie Too

PJ, there is a schism in the environmental movement with one group following the leftist propaganda that fences and borders are bad and will harm the environment pitted against a newly emerging group that wants all immigration (legal and illegal) to the U.S. because the growing population causes more harm to the environment through exploitation of natural resources than a fence would cause. THe elections to the boards of some of these groups are getting testy.


361 posted on 11/29/2005 5:12:11 AM PST by doc30 (Democrats are to morals what and Etch-A-Sketch is to Art.)
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To: Mind-numbed Robot

I am not threatening to flatten you. You written word is just not civilized.

An elected official is responsible to the people who elected him. A King is not.

King Jorge has sold out our country to businesses who profit from creating an underclass of Mexican illegals. That is immoral and unethical. We have well over 11 million illegal aliens in this country bringing us violence, disease and a lower way of life for everyone. Thanks Jorge. By the way, FDR kicked them out and so did Eixenhower.

I wanted to believe that the man had more on the ball than he does. In the first four years I said things like; "he's taking the Reagan approach to ignoring the press", "his apparent inaction is a strategy", "he is playing rope a dope". But no, he is just off on his own trip and it has nothing to do with what is good for America.


362 posted on 11/29/2005 6:24:29 AM PST by Pylot
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To: Forest Keeper
Why would they suddenly then decide to follow the law?

They won't!
363 posted on 11/29/2005 6:31:47 AM PST by gopheraj
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To: Mind-numbed Robot
They would want union representation and fixed rules and wages, including a complaint board, as well as complete paid for health insurance and company paid 401Ks or other retirement accounts.

The reason that illegals don't care if they get this is because they already have it built in from the government - medicaid, welfare etc.
364 posted on 11/29/2005 6:57:02 AM PST by gopheraj
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To: Pylot
King Jorge has sold out our country to businesses who profit from creating an underclass of Mexican illegals.

As I have said in other posts, there is much more to it than that.

That is immoral and unethical. We have well over 11 million illegal aliens in this country bringing us violence, disease and a lower way of life for everyone.

The statistics don't bear out your lower way of life conclusion. The economy is booming and prices have been kept low except for oil prices. Do you blame Bush, Cheney and Halliburton for that?

By the way, FDR kicked them out and so did Eisenhower.

Did they have 11 million of them scattered around the country? Did they have laws that forbad even asking about citizenship? Did they have Motor Voter laws? Did they have catch and release and hope laws? Did they have an opposition party fighting in favor of the illegals. FDR wasn't too tolerant of the Japanese.

Solving this problem is not a eay as most of you seem to thing. Sounds like just a Bush bashing party to me.

365 posted on 11/29/2005 7:02:39 AM PST by Mind-numbed Robot (Not all that needs to be done needs to be done by the government.)
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To: Mind-numbed Robot

You can make all of the excuses for not following the rule of law that you want. I am not buying.

Selective enforcement of the law is for Kings, not elected officials.

If the problem is too big for Jorge, let him step aside.

If the economy is doing well on the backs of second class slaves and you think thats ok, then continue to cheer on your President.

It is indefensible to create an underclass of humans in this country.


366 posted on 11/29/2005 7:13:18 AM PST by Pylot
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To: Pylot
It is indefensible to create an underclass of humans in this country.

You would be thinking about the Democrats. They are the ones who create and perpetuate victims groups.

The illegals come here because they obviously prefer it over their homelands, else why would they go to all that trouble, danger and expense. That is where they are a true underclass, at home. They come here for opportunity, something they don't have at home. Many rise above their conditions and many don't, but either way they are better off than they were before. That is why they come. We must send them back but we are sending them back to less than they have here. This creating and underclass BS is liberal pap.

The poor will always be with us but in this country it is usually from choice. Check any cross section of the homeless in this country. Many, not all but many, are not homeless. The street is their home and that is the way they want it. They prefer the unstructured environment even with all its inconveniences.

367 posted on 11/29/2005 7:32:12 AM PST by Mind-numbed Robot (Not all that needs to be done needs to be done by the government.)
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To: Mind-numbed Robot

I am afraid you are pulling that nonsense out of very thin air.

The illegal alien Mexicans have no workers comp, no unemployment benefits, no access to social security, no health care and no protection as citizens here in the US. They are absolutely an underclass.

King Jorge contributors profit immensely from not paying these people their due.

That they have a tough situation in their native country is not my problem. I am not a bleeding heart liberal out to save the world.

That King Jorge continues to import their misery and let you and I support them at our expense while business' in the US profits is criminal, its unethical and its immoral.


368 posted on 11/29/2005 9:45:20 AM PST by Pylot
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To: saveliberty

I support everyone coming here legally. I also support that number being generated by debate in congress at the federal level and at the state level as well. This meaning that States should retain the right to have a say in how many legal immigrants they would accept.

I would offer to you that the plan of discombobulation, wishywashyness, and gridlock has resulted in exactly what both parties wanted it to. Cheap labor, and votes.

I agree that the flow here does aid folks like Fox and Chavez,among others. Many do not take notice how much of mexicos economy is based on the money that illegals send there. Stopping the flow would indeed put pressure on southern nations to commit to reforms or see more argentina-like crashes. But do take notice, the spin told to those folks if we do stop this flow will be more of the same....its all America's fault.....that our immigration enforcment brought them financial ruin.

You do offer a good point there, this should be part of the overall debate on this issue.


369 posted on 11/29/2005 12:36:02 PM PST by BlueStateDepression
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To: saveliberty

I wasn't making a recomedation at all. I was stating a force that that disallows a real estate crash. Do not take me in an improper light on this subject, I think Property tax is downright Communist. In effect we can never own our land at all.

My grandfather paid many times over in property tax what he paid for his farm to begin with. I wasn't trying to say I approve of property tax at all.

I was trying to point out that property tax, as it stands today, will disallow any rapid deflation of value in real estate. If property value was to crash then so would property tax intake. That ain't ever gonna happen. The market may get ahead of itself and it may even correct itself downward when it does, but it won't be a dot com type burst.


370 posted on 11/29/2005 12:43:20 PM PST by BlueStateDepression
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To: Pylot
The illegal alien Mexicans have no workers comp, no unemployment benefits, no access to social security, no health care and no protection as citizens here in the US. They are absolutely an underclass.

That King Jorge continues to import their misery and let you and I support them at our expense while business' in the US profits is criminal, its unethical and its immoral.

Which is true? Are they without support or are we supporting them? You are a confused liberal or a young kid. Talk to someone else.

371 posted on 11/29/2005 2:41:42 PM PST by Mind-numbed Robot (Not all that needs to be done needs to be done by the government.)
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To: jackv
I thought you said they couldnt be deported? What about the guest worker program makes the 20 million illegals more easily deported? And what about that 6year period makes making them leave moral if it isnt now?
372 posted on 11/29/2005 2:55:10 PM PST by mthom
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To: BlueStateDepression

Sorry. I read your comments about the property tax the wrong way. :-)


373 posted on 11/29/2005 3:24:17 PM PST by saveliberty (I think so, Brain, but a #2 pencil won't write on Fruit-Roll-Ups)
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To: Amerigomag
Thanks for the reply:)

You're welcome

374 posted on 11/29/2005 3:45:57 PM PST by Jorge (Q)
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To: saveliberty

I would offer to you that I could have written it better the first time.


375 posted on 11/29/2005 4:21:55 PM PST by BlueStateDepression
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To: Mind-numbed Robot

If the best you can do is continue with the insults I will take your suggestion.

If you can come up with a cogent argument, let me know.


376 posted on 11/29/2005 5:11:34 PM PST by Pylot
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To: Pylot

It is like we are speaking different languages, living in different worlds. Further discussion is futile.


377 posted on 11/30/2005 2:06:08 AM PST by Mind-numbed Robot (Not all that needs to be done needs to be done by the government.)
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