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To: mdmathis6
"I think the evidence is that human nature is biased just enough toward cooperation & abstract thinking that the rise of moral systems & civilization was more likely than not. IOW, I see the generation & teaching of systems of moral values as a natural outcome of our basic human nature. "

But you are speculating, not citing scientific evidence...

True enough. But there are two facts I find compelling: In game theory, strategies based on cooperation & enlightened self-interest are superior to those based on immediate gratification across a wide variety of rule-sets. (Tit-for-tat with a moderate bias toward forgiveness is an example of a very successful simple strategy) Plus, history shows that civilizations based on these concepts have been much more successful & resilient than ones (the USSR for example) based on fundamentally different principles.

Can you even point to historical or contemporary examples of successful civilizations that were based on a bad moral system?

how could evolution have created the concept of a "God", since it is argued scientifically that there is no evidence of one. Dogs don't worship at the altar of the unseen Bone....dolphins arguably as intelligent as man don't seem to worship at the altar of the Great Fish. It seems that the best evidence of man having evolved should have been his "lack" of the concept of guilt and morality!

IMO, the belief in God is the result of

Now, was there an evolutionary benefit to our ancestors to reify & anthropomorphize & personalize the unknown? I don't know. But I'm confident that any answers to where the concept of God came from will be found in those other answers.
The apostle Paul believe it or not throws evolutionists a bone when he stated "If there be no resurrection of the dead, then let us eat drink and be merry for tomorrow we die!" The power of Christianity lies in the power of the resurrection, if science could prove it did not happen then let Christianity be consigned to the dustbins of history....

Eat drink & be merry. Yes, that's a great philosophy if you are 1. atheist and 2. have no sense of empathy. IOW, a good philosophy for sociopaths. But for the rest of us, we recognize that our actions have long-term consequences, and we viscerally understand that our loved ones who will outlive us (which can include our countrymen & even humans in general) deserve a good life too.

p.s. Was it really Paul who started the "eat, drink & be merry" quote? It's amazing how a bad argument can last for thousands of years!

402 posted on 11/29/2005 5:15:24 PM PST by jennyp (WHAT I'M READING NOW: Art of Unix Programming by Raymond)
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To: jennyp
We get to eat, drink, and enjoy the fruits of our labor (if not be merry) anyway. It says that in Ecclesiastes. It's unconditional.
408 posted on 11/29/2005 6:04:17 PM PST by VadeRetro (Liberalism is a cancer on society. Creationism is a cancer on conservatism.)
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To: jennyp

Read 1Corinthians chapter15 for the whole picture...Paul speaks of the vanity of preaching the Gospel, if there had been no resurrection of the dead...look at verse 31 and 31"I protest by your rejoicing which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord, I die daily. If after the manner of men I have fought with the beasts at Ephesus, what advantageth it me if the dead rise not? let us eat and drink; for tomorrow we die.

Ecclesiastes 8 has the original "Eat drink and be merry, quote", Paul no doubt had it in mind when he was explaining in chapter 15 the necessity of the bodily resurrection of Jesus Christ...he states in verse 5 and 6 that 500 persons who were still yet alive when he wrote the book could claim to have witnessed Jesus Christ alive and resurrected...not just the chosen 11(the twelth hung himself). I call this the spiritual cause and effect chapter...look at verse 21 and 22(one of the Handel's Messiah pieces by the way) "For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead....For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive" Note the "tit for tat", dare I say "eye for eye" symmetry...man screwed up, it would take a man to unscrew up everything... for that seems to be the Natural balance demanded by the "Word" or "Logos". Of course man couldn't do it so the "Logos" himself became flesh...or A Man. (John chapter1 verse 14...and the Word{LOGOS in the greek} became flesh)

Paul from 2000 years ago could cite 500 names and witnesses who saw Christ alive at the time he wrote the Letter to the Corinthians. Of course they'd all be with the Lord now, but unless science can conclusively prove scientifically that the resurrection never happened, or that it was just some kind of plot...then Christianity will continue to butt heads with science and vice versa.


431 posted on 11/30/2005 11:36:24 AM PST by mdmathis6 ("It was not for nothing that you were named Ransom" from CS LEWIS' Perelandra!)
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