[flaglady47]

"During its existance there were 5000 successful escapes over, under or through it. Your 2000 mile long fence just ain't gonna work."

You are ignoring the fact that in Israel, their fence HAS worked well. Virtually 100% success, except for where the fence currently is not built. Once it is completed, Israel will be pretty much hermetically sealed. It works. And better than your Berlin Wall example, as the Berlin Wall had more possibilities for escape. It didn't have the series of barriers that the Israeli's have built w/their fence (there is another thread somewhere on FR that show's the series of barriers and roads, ditches, etc.).

Obviously our border is long, but in the most important and strategic areas along the border, a series of fencing would help. It has already been successful in the part built in California along the border (except for the hole in a small area that needs filling in, but that the Bush Admin hasn't wanted to fund).

Yes, the 9/11 guys got in here on visa's under false pretenses. However, we already know that Islamists have been entering our country illegally along the Mexican border, as ranchers whose land is routinely crossed by these illegals, have found prayer rugs and Koran's on their properties (there is another thread on FR that speaks to this, posted recently).

[Dane]

Yes, the 9/11 guys got in here on visa's under false pretenses. However, we already know that Islamists have been entering our country illegally along the Mexican border, as ranchers whose land is routinely crossed by these illegals, have found prayer rugs and Koran's on their properties (there is another thread on FR that speaks to this, posted recently)

I'm actually more concerned with the islamofascists entering from Canada, a place where the current Canadian govt. is 100 times more anti-American than the avg. Mexican, where the govt. welcomes islmofascists with generous welfare benfits and where they can blend into sizable and establised muslim enclaves in cities close to the US border such as Toronto, Montreal, and Vancouver.

[af_vet_rr]

Obviously our border is long, but in the most important and strategic areas along the border, a series of fencing would help. It has already been successful in the part built in California along the border (except for the hole in a small area that needs filling in, but that the Bush Admin hasn't wanted to fund).

Saying it's long is an understatement. As much as I'd like to see some kind of true wall, I know it won't happen for the very reason you just mentioned - if the federal government (President Bush, etc.), won't fix the problems already present in those areas with some kind of control, I seriously doubt they will do anything on this large of scale.

What I would like to see, and what I think would ultimately be more successul, at least in regards to illegal immigration, is jailtime for those who emply illegal aliens. You start putting company managers and owners in jail (and not the country club variety), you'll see a lot of jobs drying up fast for them.

Following jailtime for those who employ illegals, you have to work on insuring that illegals don't benefit from federal and state assistance programs.

Remove those two incentives, and you've gone a long way towards cleaning up the border region.

Of course, those who employ illegals have deep, deep pockets, and probably contribute to both parties (hence President Bush wanting to allow current illegals to stay in the country for up to six years).

[Rokke]

"You are ignoring the fact that in Israel, their fence HAS worked well."

You just can't seem to grasp the fact that 50 miles is A LOT different than 2000 miles. And there are political events happening in Israel that contributed to the reduction in suicide bombing attacks. Arafat is dead. Israel has pulled out of many disputed territories. The war in Iraq has attracted Jihadists like a moth to a lightbulb, etc. Even Israel acknowledges that its wall can only reduce the number of terrorists slipping across its borders. Not eliminate them. And when their wall is completely done, it will be less than 1/4 the length of ours.

"the Berlin Wall had more possibilities for escape. It didn't have the series of barriers that the Israeli's have built w/their fence (there is another thread somewhere on FR that show's the series of barriers and roads, ditches, etc.)."

Absolutely false. The Berlin wall made anything the Israelis plan look like a picket fence. And the guards in its 320 watch towers had strict orders to shoot to kill. And they did. 171 times in 28 years. Yet, 5000 made it through. That is one person every 3 or 4 days through a series of barriers and bullets that we could never hope to replicate along a length of border .8% the length of what we hope to cover.

"Obviously our border is long, but in the most important and strategic areas along the border, a series of fencing would help. It has already been successful in the part built in California along the border"

So the flow of illegals into this country has slowed down? I don't think so. Like water, they just look for the path of least resistance. Here's another analogy. When you are suffering from a roach infestation, you will never get rid of them until you remove the reason they came into your house in the first place. No amount of spraying and NO attempt to seal your house will work. You've got to remove the lure.