This is very interesting. So you are saying that there were TWO Orthodox Churches among Eastern Slavs, one Russian and one Ukrainian? Were the Novgorod Christians part of the Ukrainian Church or Russian one? When was the baptism of Rusia and when was the baptism of Ukraine? Was the church of Nowgorod the separate third Church, if so, when she came into being?
But then in 17th cent. as Russians began destroying institutions of ukrainian independence, they done away with our church.
How could they do it? Ukraine was under POLISH rule at that time!
In 1991 Ukraine got its political independence from Russia, but the Russian Orthodox Church stayed.
"Russian Orthodox Church stayed"? WHat do you mean?
The major step is the getting the Greeks to recognize Ukr. Ortho. Church- continue the talks they had some months ago.
So the Church of Greece does not recognized "Ukr. Ortho. Church"? Why is that so? I looked at offical web site of the Church of Greece. It looks that Greeks have excellent relationships with the Russian Church, what were "the talks they had some months ago" about? Who were the sides in these talks?
To be even more specific Ukraine has 3 orthodox churches- one, Ukrainian Autocephalous Orthodox Church- this church declared independence from Russia during the 1917 revolution; second, Ukr. Orthodox Church (Kyiv Patiarchate)- declared independence in 1989; third- the Russians. The first two being separate is ridiculous- they're due to merge any year now.
And yes, Ukraine used to have its own metropolitan, which was subjected only to the Greeks. Novgorod, Moscow etc. were part of the Russian, Kyiv, Ukraine was not. It came to be under Moscow's control in 1686. Up till 1589 Moscow was also subservient to Constantinople, and in effect it was on the same level as Kyiv, but then Russians declared independence from the Greeks. Afterwords, the damn Pereyaslav in 1654, and in 1686 Kyiv Church came to be under Moscow.
When was the baptism of Rusia and when was the baptism of Ukraine?
Territories of modern day Russia and Ukraine were baptized at the same time (988). When Mongols came, Rus was divided. Lithuaniians, Galicia, Moscow created their own churches and all claimed to be the inheritor of Rus.
Was the church of Nowgorod the separate third Church, if so, when she came into being?
I'm not too sure there was one. If there was I'd suspect it came to be when Mongols invaded, and ceased to exist when Moscow conquered Novgorod.
But then in 17th cent. as Russians began destroying institutions of ukrainian independence, they done away with our church.
How could they do it? Ukraine was under POLISH rule at that time!
Come on joker. I meant after the Pereyaslav Treaty (1654) obviously.
"Russian Orthodox Church stayed"? WHat do you mean?
1991=USSR collapse= Ukraine's independence. But something as influential as the church remained in the Russian hands. This doesn't equate with Ukraine being independent.
This is how it actually worked. In USSR there was only ONE church- Moscow's. In 1989, as USSR was about to die off, there was several brave clergymen which were IN this Russian church who declared their independence from Moscow. Hundreds of others joined and Kyiv Patriarchate was created. It was all up to the priests who were in control of the actual church building- they decided who they wanted to join- Moscow or the newly created Kyiv. As more and more parishes converted to Kyiv, Moscow flooded Ukraine with Russian-born priests who would replace the ones in the churches. So it's quite common that a priest of the Ukrainian Orthodox Church (Moscow Patriarchate), on the TERRITORY OF UKRAINE, is from Tula or some other Russian region.
It's quite exciting- like in an army- mutinies, defections, plus politics.
So the Church of Greece does not recognized "Ukr. Ortho. Church"? Why is that so?
Do you have to ask why? 'Cause Russia controls a fifth of the Earth's surface and Greeks aren't as brave as we'd like them to be.
what were "the talks they had some months ago" about? Who were the sides in these talks?
I'd have to look it up so I promise to get back to you. Something else I found
Of particular concern to the ROC is Constantinople Patriarch Bartholomew I's declaration in June that Ukraine lies within its canonical territory. That claim, which is backed by the Greek, Romanian, Bulgarian, and Georgian Orthodox Churches, is based on Constantinople's non-recognition of the forcible transfer of the Kyiv Orthodox Metropolitanate to Moscow in 1686, making the ROC's control over Ukraine uncanonical in the eyes of Constantinople.Source