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To: ScubieNuc

Don't make this tough.

There are two forms of unbelief. One is from not hearing or not hearing enough of the correct doctrine, the other is rejection of what one has heard.

Rom 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved


If you have never heard this in any way shape or form then you cannot possibly believe it.



Rom 10:14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
But if you do believe it then you 'shalt be saved'.

And if you've never heard about speaking in tongues or prophesy as a part of God's will:

1Cr 14:5 I would that ye all spake with tongues, but rather that ye prophesied: for greater [is] he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.

You will never know about it. If you don't know about it, how can you believe it?

Act 19:1-9 Talks about Paul following Apollos through Ephesis. Apollos taught what he knew and that was the equivalent of Romans 10:9,10. He didn't teach about the baptism of holy spirit. Paul found out about that and took those saved souls a step further.

Act 19:2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.


Clearly there are those who have never heard enough to get saved. They do not believe and they are not saved. Their unbelief is from not having heard.

Clearly there are those who have have heard and still do not believe. They are still unsaved and their unbelief is a matter of their free will decision to reject Christ.

There are those who have heard, and have believed enough to be saved. But if they have not heard about matters of the spirit, how will they know about them? Clearly they are saved but do not have further belief because they are ignorant.

And there are those who are saved and who have had the opportunity to hear more of God's word. Clearly they can only believe what they are exposed to. And then it is a matter of choice on their part. If they are taught about walking in the spirit instead of in the flesh and they reject those teachings, then they do not believe God's word at that point.

How many people say that they believe in salvation by grace not of works, but still work for salvations? They clearly do not truly believe that savation is a free gift and are trying to earn it.



276 posted on 11/25/2005 11:23:12 AM PST by Eagle Eye (There ought to be a law against excess legislation.)
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To: Eagle Eye; George W. Bush; knarf

But none of that means anything when you look to the Early Church.

The people at Pentacost heard NOTHING of the Holy Spirit Baptism that was to occur, yet they spoke in tongues, had the gifts of miracles, all of it, and NOT ONE had heard of any of it and it had NOTHING to do with spiritual maturity, and NONE of them tarried for that spirit after Salvation.

Today's modern Charismatic movement is so far removed from the Biblical example it is almost cult like.


292 posted on 11/25/2005 12:08:34 PM PST by RaceBannon ((Prov 28:1 KJV) The wicked flee when no man pursueth: but the righteous are bold as a lion.)
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To: Eagle Eye
What confused me in your first post was...

"That is the mark of a saved Believers vs saved a non believer."

Then in your response to my question, you said...

There are those who believe only enough to be saved. Then there are those who believe more. Pretty simple, eh? "

To me, that can confuse new Christians. The Bible talks about those who believe (believers) and those who believe not (non-believers). The Bible says that those who believe are saved. (Luke 8:12, Acts 15:11, Acts 16:31)Therefore, technically, you CANNOT have "saved nonbelievers."

Clear Christian terminology, in this case, is what I'm looking for. Most Christians I know, refer to the un-saved as non-believers.

Secondly, The phrase, "those who believe more" leads me to believe that you are saying that the gifts you get are dependant on your "level" of belief. Like I said before, you either believe or believe not.

This may all seem like silly hair spliting, but I have my reasons. I have personally seen (in an AOG church) people who came to believe that they weren't saved, because they (like you said) didn't have the "mark of a saved believer". In other words, they didn't speak in tongues so they didn't have the sign of being saved. Plus, if speaking in tongues is the least of the gifts, and they couldn't have the least of the gifts, then they believed that they don't get any of the gifts. When you tie that up with the "predistination" belief that God doesn't choose all people to be saved, people come to assume that they must be one of those not fortunate enough to be saved, and give up.

That, I believe, is a tragedy.

Overall, I believe what you are saying is that there are Christians who know more, and there are "babes" who know less. The only way "babes" can know more, is for them to study the Word or have it preached to them. I agree with all that.

Sincerely
295 posted on 11/25/2005 12:16:16 PM PST by ScubieNuc
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