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To: whispering out loud
I'll deny the gift outright and use Scripture to support it.

Tongues were genuine languages, not ecstatic utterances.

Tongues were a sign for UNBELIEVERS, not believers.

If you deny any of the above points, you deny the clear, plain teaching of Scripture.

http://www.google.com/custom?q=charismatic&cof=AH%3Acenter%3BS%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.middletownbiblechurch.org%3B+%09%09%09%09%09AWFID%3Aceb9f7372ed76876%3B&domains=middletownbiblechurch.org&sitesearch=middletownbiblechurch.org

http://www.middletownbiblechurch.org/doctrine/onecor13.htm

167 posted on 11/24/2005 5:51:46 PM PST by RaceBannon ((Prov 28:1 KJV) The wicked flee when no man pursueth: but the righteous are bold as a lion.)
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To: RaceBannon
I'll deny the gift outright and use Scripture to support it.

There is no such thing as the gift of tongues. The word gift in KJV is italicized, indicating that it was supplied by translators. The word 'spiritual' proceding gifts could and should be correctly translated 'matters of the spirit'. Tongues are not a gift; holy spirit is the gift. Speaking in tongues is one demostration of the gift.

Tongues were genuine languages, not ecstatic utterances.

1Cr 13:1 Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become [as] sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.

Clearly the Bible teaches the possibility of languages of men and angles. But nothing says that the hearer will necessarily understand anything spoken because he that speaks in tongues doesn't speak to men but to God.

Tongues were a sign for UNBELIEVERS, not believers.

Yes. Speaking in tongues is also prayer in the spirit as God giving the utterance. Speaking in tongues is also praising and speaking the wonderful works of God, and it edifies the speaker. Kind of makes me wonder why you wouldn't want to do these things and work so dilligently to keep others from doing them as well.

If you deny any of the above points, you deny the clear, plain teaching of Scripture.

So why do you deny clear scripture that tells us to speak with tongues? There's no harm in it and many benefits.

What motivates one to talk people out of the clear teachings with clear blessings for those who choose to believe?

184 posted on 11/24/2005 7:13:45 PM PST by Eagle Eye (There ought to be a law against excess legislation.)
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To: RaceBannon
I cor 14:2 "For he that speaks in an unknown tongue speaks not unto men, but unto God: for no man understands him; but instead he speaks in mysteries.

The bible clearly talks about many different tongues, but the prayer language which is the topic of debate here is a direct hotline with God. My friend to deny that is to deny clear plain teaching of scripture. "no man understands him" it doesn't say no one on the room, nor does it say none of our culture, but no man. But you know what, God understands him, you see God understands the very utterings of our soul. and If we deny that then we deny the supremacy, and omnipotence of our holy and loving God.
195 posted on 11/24/2005 8:36:56 PM PST by whispering out loud (the bible is either 100% true, or in it's very nature it is 100% a lie)
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To: RaceBannon
Tongues were genuine languages, not ecstatic utterances. Tongues were a sign for UNBELIEVERS, not believers. If you deny any of the above points, you deny the clear, plain teaching of Scripture.

There is truth to that, but how do you reconcile:

1Cr 14:2 For he that speaketh in an [unknown] tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth [him]; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.

The clear plain teachings doesn't seem as simple as you imply.

201 posted on 11/25/2005 3:53:26 AM PST by Always Right
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To: RaceBannon

Blessings on You and Your House

Please reconsider "I'll deny the gift outright..."

I was an atheist for many years, university trained as an engineer and a linguist - and now a sinner saved by grace. I teach adult Sunday school in a rural Methodist church - showing the inerrancy of the Word and the love of Jesus whenever I can.

I do not defend the silliness and apostasy in many denominations (Methodist included), charismatic and otherwise. The Lord will deal with that in His time. I am here only as a witness, and that temporarily.

After three score years+, I am so profoundly grateful to Jesus to be alive and know Him that all else seems minor and unimportant. Even this debate about tongues. And, Yes, I do speak in tongues. Yes, they are of God. Yes, I have seen deliverance of those in bondage to Satan because of this gift.

I am less than sanguine about even a professional, educated linguist making headway with some anti-tongues folks, but feel free to Freepmail me. Be very careful when criticizing the brethren. Very careful.


214 posted on 11/25/2005 5:32:25 AM PST by esopman (God Bless Freepers Everywhere (I Cor 14:39))
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