New Policy: Southern Baptist Missionary Candidates Can't Speak in Tongues

Beliefnet ^ | Nov. 23 2005Beliefnet | Adelle M. Banks

[Dust in the Wind]

"......the Vineyard churches' assault on orthodox Christians
having failed to establish control of non-charismatic churches via their unbiblical Promise-Keepers ruse"

HUH?

[chronic_loser]

just don't tell me that I don't have the Spirit because I don't speak in tongues.

don't you think the best refutation of this charge that you don't have the Holy Spirit because you don't have X or Y (I have faced this charge) is to so DEMONSTRATE the fruit of the Holy Spirit (Love Joy Peace Patience Kindness Gentleness, etc) that the person making the charge has nothing to say?

I have seen conversations (as an observer, not a participant) go from "you can't be a real Christian b/c you don't speak in tongues" to "but you could have so much MORE if you would just...." simply due to the manner of interaction.

[Eagle Eye]

Sorry your experince has been so limited to the misuse, abuse, or even counterfeiting of something that God, through Paul makes available to the Christian believer.

If tongues, interpretation of tongues, prophesy, etc are no longer available, what about apostles, prophets, pastors, evangelists, and teachers?

Why would some be done away and not others?

All were given to the building of the body. All have a use and purpose.

[George W. Bush]

With all due respect, you are exhibiting a type of un-belief common to those who have not been properly taught on the subject.

You mean the beliefs of centuries of Baptists and Protestants and Catholics that have gone before? Yes. Am I enthused over the practices popularized by the Azuza church circa 1900 A.D. Of course not.

The grossly unscriptural practices and beliefs of these various early charismatic movements are well-known. They include: Azuza Street revival, AOG and Pentecostal denominations, Latter-Rain, UPC, Oneness Pentecostals, some Quakers, and the Word-Faith movement. More recently, we see the final fruit in the Vineyard churches via the Toronto Blessing (airport), the Brownsville/Pensacola movement (holy laughter and other very strange behavior), and Holy Trinity Brompton in the U.K.

None of this has any connection with historic Baptist belief or with any of the Protestant or even Catholic traditions through the centuries. I find the charismatic far more alien and suspicious than I do Protestants and Catholics.

It is a matter of debate whether orthodox Christians are more distant from charismatics or from Mormons. Oh, but wait, I forgot that the Mormon elders dedicated their first temple by speaking in tongues, didn't they?

Maybe you charismatics belong with the Mormons. Not infiltrating sound Bible-believing Baptist churches.

[Eagle Eye]

Kind of interesting the walking in love is all in the context of speaking in tongues, prophesy, and proper use of all the demonstations of holy spirit.

If one doesn't walk in love can one bear much fruit of the spirit?

How would one bear fruit if one doesn't use the spiritual abilities that come from the Father?

Is speaking in tongues all there is or the end result?

Absolutely not. But it is one of the numerous demonstrations/manifestations of the spirit and Paul highly encourages it when the time is appropriate.

[George W. Bush]

If I buy into your description of the modern charismatics, can I learn how to talk like this in order to glorify God? Most importantly, can you teach me how to hate evil so much that people can't tell the difference between hating evil and hating them?

Don't think I fall for your little act. I know the history and techniques of your cultic beliefs and will not dialog to consensus with you.

What you resent is that someone should expose the history of charismania.

[George W. Bush]

I've seen this brought to a church in which I was a deacon and I had to walk out of the service. This, unlike speaking in tongues, is/was totally unbiblical and the introduction if it into our church was done with coercision and strong arm tactics.

You haven't examined their arguments favoring their holy guffawing enough. Believe me, they do muster them. Just google it up for yourself.

And, yes, it is a strong-arm tactic quite often. It's another form of church invasion. You should flee any church that doesn't immediately resist it. The holy laughter is only the beginning of their practices.

[Eagle Eye]

Not infiltrating sound Bible-believing Baptist churches.

You are not Bible believing if you repudiate a large part of the New Testament and you admit it.

You'll pray, but not in the spirit. You'll sing, but not in the spirit. You'll shout "Amen" but refuse to speak to God in the spirit.

It is your privlege to reject Paul's writings and justify it by any means you please.

However, just because you don't know how it works and have apparantly seen it done inappropriately (as Paul warns in 1 Corinthians) doesn't mean that there are believer who can and do speak in tongue, interpret tongues, prophesy, have word of wisdon, word of knowledge, discerning of spirits, faith, miracles and healings.

That is a bundle package available to ALL Christian. Even you. But you have to believe you can, which obviously you don't.

[chronic_loser]

WE are the true blue children of God! ONLY WE have real love and the Holy Spirit. You can tell this by how much we LOVE, you despicable, demonic, piece of gutter slime from hell! You are a spawn of Satan, you filthy execrable nonbibilical disciple of the Devil!

UNTRUE! you lying piece of unbiliblical filth!! WE are the true church and you can tell it is true because you (fill in your favorite commission or omission of the group you despise at present). You are corrupting the church by your (a: resistance to the Holy Spirit or b: wild pagan practices) and I can't wait to see God damn all of you to hell!

Isn't it just lovely to be able to hate in the name of God? I don't even have to admit it is hate. I can call it "standing up for the truth" or "being zealous for scriptural truth" or "wanting you to have all that God has for you."

[wardaddy]

ancient hebrew was symbols...not a phonetic alphabet

you have something against runes in general?

[esopman]

Eagle Eye speak much truth. /end Indian tongues dialect.

[George W. Bush]

That is a bundle package available to ALL Christian. Even you. But you have to believe you can, which obviously you don't.

A statement of any professional con man. Only believe...

"If you only believe this, then all these other things..."... You'll be rich, you'll be happy, you'll be filled with joy, you'll predict the future, you'll speak in unknown tongues...

I know the cant and drivel the charsimatics purvey. Keep your cultic notions in your own churches. Among traditional Bible-believing Baptists, you're about as welcome as a pope. Or a Buddhist or Hindu.

[The Ghost of FReepers Past]

My friend did nto believe there was a "truly" gift at all. He just was non-hostile, gentle, and willing to win the man rather than the argument.

A very wise friend. I need to do better at that myself sometimes. It's nice to read about a good example. He stood up for the truth, but did it in the kindest of ways. I love that story.

[chronic_loser]

Don't think I fall for your little act. I know the history and techniques of your cultic beliefs and will not dialog to consensus with you.

I am not charismatic. Like I said before, I believe with Warfield that the gifts passed with the apostles......

I don't have a horse to ride in that race.

I am not quite sure I know what you mean by "dialog(ue) to consensus." Literally, it means that two people speak until they agree, which is, I thought, the purpose of communication.

Later. I have to go get some fixings ready.

[The Ghost of FReepers Past]

You are more than welcome to give input lj. The fun thing about these threads is that we get all different perspectives. I think that's healthy.

[wardaddy]

From Origins of Runes

Runes were used to write many languages including, Gothic, German, Frisian, English, Danish, Swedish, Norwegian, Icelandic, Lithuanian, Russian, Hebrew and other Semitic languages (due to trade relations with the Khazars, a Semitic tribe of traders of the Silk Road).

Don't try to smear my opinions with your allegations of Madonna or voodoo Kaballahism....I said nothing of that...you projected your own Lord of the Rings sensibilities on me

There is nothing mystic about runes...they are symbols once designed to be used in communication...nothing more...and they typically predate phonetic alphabets which are a mainstay of advanced civilizations alongside wheels and whatnot

Geez

no need to be rude and insulting over nothing...where are you from?

[Liberty Valance]

Whew! doesn't say a thing about snake handling.
Guess i'm safe ;o)

Happy Thanksgiving everybody!

[little jeremiah]

Happy Thanks Giving!

:-)

[chronic_loser]

ancient hebrew was symbols...not a phonetic alphabet
you have something against runes in general?

Actually, you are incorrect. Ancient hebrew was aleph beth gimel dalet heth yud..... (you need the rest of them?). It was a phonetic alphabet that contained no vowels (pronumciation was known by the position of the consonants). The masoretes in about 900 ad added diacritical vowel marks to assist us in knowing how hebrew was spoken. The "ususual" thing about Hebrew was that it was written right to left, rather than left to right.

"Runes" are, as I said, picture writing, kind of like hierroglyphics. I don't have a thing against them. They just aren't hebrew. I am not mad about it. It is just the way it is.

[chronic_loser]

Hey man. I was trying to be helpful, not insulting. I am very sorry if I came across as insulting. I don't believe in "ad hominem" arguing of theological positions, anyway.

Please believe me, I wasn't trying to do anything but say that charismatics are more "mystical" in their approach to the bible. Nada mas. Not trying to say that you are Madonna-like. It is just that she is a modern Kabbala devotee I thought people could say "oh yeah" when I brought her up.

PLEASE forgive any unintended insults. They were truly unintended.