ACLU Looking to File Suit Over JHS Graduation "Altar Call" (Someone shoot me)

http://www.kait8.com/Global/story.asp?S=4150375&nav=0jsh ^ | November 21, 2005 | Heather Flanigan

[sasafras]

Time to get off planet pluto and come to earth - " the school allowed the prayer"

The school didnt allow the prayer the student did if of her own free will. Quit acting like you are so offended. This is a Christian nation - founded by Christians under Christian philosophy. There is no seperation of church and state in the Constitution.

Damn PC police everywhere you turn - always worried about offending someone. Time to get over yourself and quit acting like the world centers around you. America is 90% Christian which means that we make acceptance for other religions but that doesnt mean we cant practice our own in any venue we please.

[muawiyah]

The Protestants and other Christians present would not be answering the call ~ just the non-Christians.

Don't you know anything about other folk's religions?

[goldstategop]

That's exactly my point. People can disagree without dragging the courts into it. God knows (oops, there I go offending the ACLU again! ;-)) how we all lived together in the days before the ACLU started viewing religious beliefs as the modern equivalent of hard core porn.

(Denny Crane: "I Don't Want To Socialize With A Pinko Liberal Democrat Commie.Say What You Like About Republicans. We Stick To Our Convictions. Even When We Know We're Dead Wrong.")

[SoothingDave]

She did more than express an opinion. She tried to hijack the ceremony and insert a Christian initiation rite into the middle of it. That goes beyond expressing an opinion.

Talk about hyperbole!

Really? I was under the impression that the altar call was a serious thing and not a mere rhetorical flourish. Don't people sometimes take it seriously and come forward and accept Christ?

How is it hyperbole to suggest that this student would have been pleased if someone responded and she could have had a big emotional come-to-Jesus moment?

SD

[sharkhawk]

So everytime a validictorian is giving the commencement speech, they should be allowed to turn the event into a religious service? I agree that there is no constitutional issue, but a graduation service is not the place for this. If a validictorian can't understand that, they should decline the honor of speaking.

[muawiyah]

The event took place at Arkansas State University Convocation Center. It was a highschool event, but everybody was/had graduated~!

This was hardly a classroom full of innocent young kindergartners.

[SoothingDave]

I refuse to worship at your church/temple/synagogue, to your god(s), in your manner, and there's not a damned thing you can do about it because I live in America.

LOL. You really don't get it, do you? This girl took her worship to a captive audience and in an inappropriate place.

SD

[On the Road to Serfdom]

Suppose you are right and the speaker was "wrong", "selfish", and "inappropriate". (I am leaning toward thinking you are somewhat right.)

There is nothing in the constitution that forbids being wrong, selfish, or inappropriate. The constitution does give the speaker the right to free speech and free excercise of religion.

Even if you are right the ACLU is wrong.

[sasafras]

"But then I've always been one to practice my religion in the quiet of my home or the solitude my church, instead of making a public spectacle just so I can feel good about myself."

Sounds like you are ashamed of your religion - hmmm I guess Jesus should have been quiet just like you huh? Quiet Christians should really search to see if they are Christian at all - the fruits of faith dont sit quietly when innocent children are murdered or do they?

[muawiyah]

Fifi, a FORMER student did whatever it was she did in front of a bunch of FORMER students who are adults under the law. Further, whether you like her religious beliefs or not, they are hers, and if she was to give the allowable prayer, it's up to her to do whatever it was she was going to do and NOT up to the state to writer her a prayer.

The Supreme Court prohibited such things long ago.

[netmilsmom]

>> I bear witness that there is no deity except Allah and that Muhammad is his messenger<<

Ding, Ding, Ding!
We have a winner!

I'll fight for the right to have a prayer.
I'll fight for the right to have a prayer service on school grounds.
I'll fight for some tact in keeping a graduation ceremony about the graduates and not one's personal way of following her religion.

[SoothingDave]

The Protestants and other Christians present would not be answering the call ~ just the non-Christians. Don't you know anything about other folk's religions?

Yes, I understand fully. Do you understand that the whole altar call thingy is an initiation rite, whereby people become Christian? It is wholly inapropriate for this to happen in the middle of a graduation ceremony.

Say a prayer. Talk about how important Jesus is in your life. Give a strong witness to the power of God working in your life.

But don't go fishing for converts and try to have an initiation rite.

SD

[sharkhawk]

There is nothing in the constitution that forbids being wrong, selfish, or inappropriate. The constitution does give the speaker the right to free speech and free excercise of religion.

Even if you are right the ACLU is wrong.

The ACLU is wrong, but the school should have shut the mike. And what will probably be the result is strict rules on what the speakers will be allowed to say at future graduations.

[muawiyah]

Why no mention of God? Does the government suddenly have the authority to tell highschool graduates that they can't say "God" at a public event?

How ridiculous. Where did you ever get the idea that the purpose of the US government is to suppress religion?

[Crawdad]

Where can I go to see where these clowns get their money?

[sasafras]

" LOL. You really don't get it, do you? This girl took her worship to a captive audience and in an inappropriate place."

So what PC policeman????? If people dont like it then they have the right to stand up and call her out. Just like liberals to use the court in an unconstitutional way to enact their percieved justice. If you dont like it then you have the right to walk out or say something. They were not held against their will.

[the Real fifi]

It is quite clear we will never agree on this--but I point out that this FORMER student did her tent revival speech in a public building at an event financed by taxpayers.It would be nice if the School Board and the ACLU could enter into an agreement in which the former agreed that they would make clear to graduation speakers that such conduct is not permissible. Nevertheless, this Come to Jesus moment was inappropriate.

[goldstategop]

Free speech is dangerous. Which is precisely why dictatorships ban it. Here in America, if some expressed a view, I didn't like, I can rebut it. With all the problems free speech poses in a free society, I prize differences of opinion over living in a world of dull, oppressing conformity cloaked in heavy fear. You can decide you think this young woman's views are out of place. That's the point; you get to be heard as well the other person does and the government doesn't get to decide who is right. Nor do I want it to.

(Denny Crane: "I Don't Want To Socialize With A Pinko Liberal Democrat Commie.Say What You Like About Republicans. We Stick To Our Convictions. Even When We Know We're Dead Wrong.")

[muawiyah]

Again, that happens to be your narrow, sectarian religious belief ~ I don't happen to share it.

[Eagles Talon IV]

Football players or other athletes are permitted to pray before a game. The only restriction is the prayer may not be led by an employee of the school system. How is this any different? The girl apparently did this on her own without guidance from a teacher. That aside it is apparent you are not very familiar with the first amendment which reads in part "congress shall make no law respecting the establishment of religion or the free expression thereof"

Do you also believe that "separation of church and state is somewhere in the Constitution?