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In Strong Terms, Rome Is to Ban Gays as Priests
New York Times ^ | 11-23-05 | IAN FISHER and LAURIE GOODSTEIN

Posted on 11/22/2005 11:31:08 PM PST by jec1ny

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To: jec1ny; All

well it seems the left's efforts to say it is really not a serious ban are deeply saddened.


41 posted on 11/23/2005 5:14:15 AM PST by longtermmemmory (VOTE!)
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To: jec1ny

This could be used to bar the Catholic Church from public facilities, campuses and the like, similar to how the Boy Scouts are now treated.


42 posted on 11/23/2005 5:16:49 AM PST by Semper Paratus
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To: Aquinasfan
And what's your infallible interpretation of the following Scripture verses?

Most "Bible Christians" (a direction in which I myself incline) have a different understanding of the words "the church" in the Pauline epistles than you do.

And, to be fair to them, Paul IS almost always referring to the local ekklesia when he says "take it to the church", and nowhere does he suggest that HIS assembly (if he even has one) should be a Supreme Court overseeing the decisions of the church in Corinth or Phillipi.

43 posted on 11/23/2005 5:17:35 AM PST by Jim Noble (Non, je ne regrette rien)
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To: mj1234
The Bishops and cardinals in the U.S. hid this from the faithful-Since the 60's.

Yes - the 1460s.

44 posted on 11/23/2005 5:18:43 AM PST by Jim Noble (Non, je ne regrette rien)
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To: jec1ny

"with few exceptions"

I had to stop there.....


45 posted on 11/23/2005 5:21:25 AM PST by Preachin' (Enoch's testimony was that he pleased God: Why are we still here?)
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To: jec1ny

It is interesting that they are identifying support of the gay culture as sinful. Why hasn't anyone commented on this?


46 posted on 11/23/2005 5:24:37 AM PST by Ford4000
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To: jec1ny

One small step.....


47 posted on 11/23/2005 5:24:45 AM PST by showme_the_Glory (No more rhyming, and I mean it! ..Anybody got a peanut.....)
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To: Jim Noble
Paul IS almost always referring to the local ekklesia when he says "take it to the church",

Jesus tells us to take our disputes "to the church." Presumably He's speaking of the one that He founded.

And if churches with contradictory doctrines are all "His Church," His command would be irrational and void.

His Church must be unified doctrinally.

If Paul was speaking of a single local church as "the pillar and foundation of truth," what would that make the other local churches? Or are there several pillars of truth promoting contradictory doctrines?

Finally, the New Testament wasn't canonized until 400 years after the birth of Christ. The last book in the Bible wasn't written until 70 years after Christ's death. So the early Church could not have been guided by the doctrine of "the Bible alone." Moreover, the doctrine would not be practical for another 1400 years when the printing press was invented.

Consider also that nowhere in Scripture does Jesus command the writing of a New Testament. The early Church saw no need to record Jesus' teachings since Christ's disciples expected Jesus' imminent return. It was not until years after Christ's death that His apostles began to record His teachings. And it was the Church that ultimately determined which writings were inspired and which were not, since many false gospels were circulating in the early Church.

48 posted on 11/23/2005 5:36:00 AM PST by Aquinasfan (Isaiah 22:22, Rev 3:7, Mat 16:19)
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To: billybudd

That's funny right there. I don't care who ya are!


49 posted on 11/23/2005 5:37:11 AM PST by Doohickey (If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice...I will choose freewill.)
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To: Raycpa
Experts have noted that is incorrect to equate pedophilia with homosexuality.

Well done, NYT! We all know that most of the cases of abuse involved the molestation of teenage boys (ephebophilia), not pedophilia.

50 posted on 11/23/2005 5:38:48 AM PST by Aquinasfan (Isaiah 22:22, Rev 3:7, Mat 16:19)
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To: trebb
I'm amazed it took them so long to decide that the Bible is correct and that they ought to adhere to its standards...

Unlike some protestant denominations, the Catholic Church has always banned the admission of homosexuals to the priesthood. Unfortunately, some bishops disregarded those instructions.

51 posted on 11/23/2005 5:50:53 AM PST by NYer (“Socialism is the religion people get when they lose their religion")
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To: jec1ny; american colleen; Lady In Blue; Salvation; narses; SMEDLEYBUTLER; redhead; ...
Concerning the Criteria of Vocational Discernment Regarding Persons With Homosexual Tendencies In View of Their Admission to Seminaries and Holy Orders

November 22, 2005English translation courtesy of The Tablet

INTRODUCTION In continuity with the teaching of the Second Vatican Council and, in particular, with the decree Optatam totius on priestly formation, the Congregation for Catholic Education has published various documents to promote an adequate integral formation of future priests, offering guidelines and precise norms concerning its different aspects. The Synod of Bishops in 1990 also reflected on priestly formation in the current circumstances, with the intention of complementing the conciliar teaching on this issue and make it more explicit and incisive in the contemporary world. Following this Synod, Pope John Paul II published the post-synodal Apostolic Exhortation Pastores dabo vobis.

In light of this rich teaching, the present Instruction does not intend to dwell on all the issues in the affective or sexual realm that require attentive discernment throughout the entire period of formation. It contains norms regarding a particular issue, made more urgent by the current situation, and that is the admission or not to Seminaries and Holy Orders of candidates that have deep-seated homosexual tendencies.

1. Affective maturity and spiritual fatherhood (paternity) According to the constant Tradition of the Church, only baptised males validly receive sacred Ordination. Through the sacrament of Orders the Holy Spirit configures the candidate, with a new and specific designation, to Jesus Christ: the priest, in fact, sacramentally represents Christ, Head, Shepherd, and Spouse of the Church. Because of this configuration to Christ, the entire life of the sacred minister must be animated by the gift of his entire person to the Church and by authentic pastoral charity.

The candidate for ordained ministry, therefore, must attain affective maturity. Such maturity will allow him to relate properly with men and women, developing in him a true sense of spiritual fatherhood for the ecclesial community that will be entrusted to him.

2. Homosexuality and Ordained Ministry Since the Second Vatican Council up until today, various documents from the Magisterium – especially the Catechism of the Catholic Church -- have confirmed the Church's teaching on homosexuality. The Catechism distinguishes between homosexual acts and homosexual tendencies.

Regarding acts, it teaches that, in Sacred Scripture, these are presented grave sins. Tradition has always considered them as intrinsically immoral and contrary to the natural law. As a consequence, they can never be approved under any circumstance.

As regards to deep-seated homosexual tendencies, which are present in a certain number of men and women, these also are objectively disordered and are often a trial for such people. They must be accepted with respect and sensitivity; every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfil God's will in their lives and to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord's Cross the difficulties they may encounter.

In the light of such teaching, this Dicastery, together with the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments, deems it necessary to clearly affirm that the Church, even while deeply respecting the persons in question, cannot admit to Seminary or Holy Orders those who are actively homosexual, have deep-seated homosexual tendencies, or support the so-called gay culture.

Such people, in fact, find themselves in a situation that seriously obstructs them from properly relating to men and women. The negative consequences that can result from the Ordination of persons with deep-seated homosexual tendencies should not be obscured.

When dealing, instead, with homosexual tendencies that might only be a manifestation of a transitory problem, as, for example, delayed adolescence, these must be clearly overcome at least three years before diaconal Ordination.

3. The Church's discernment of the suitability of candidates There are two inseparable aspects of every vocation: the free gift of God and the responsible freedom of man. The vocation is a gift of divine grace, received through the Church, in the Church, and for service of the Church. By responding to the call of God, man offers himself freely to Him in love. The mere desire to become a priest is not sufficient and there is no right to receive sacred Ordination. It rests with the Church -- in her responsibility to define the necessary requirements for reception of the Sacraments instituted by Christ -- to discern the suitability of the one who wishes to enter the Seminary, to accompany him during the years of formation, and to call him to Holy Orders, if he is judged to possess the required qualities.

The formation of the future priest must articulate, in an essential complementarity, the four dimensions of formation: human, spiritual, intellectual, and pastoral. In this context, it is important to recall the particular importance of human formation as the necessary foundation of all formation. To admit a candidate to diaconal Ordination, the Church must verify, among other things, that the candidate for priesthood has attained affective maturity.

The call to Orders is the personal responsibility of the Bishop or the General Superior. Keeping in mind the view of those to whom they entrusted the responsibility of formation, the Bishop or General Superior, before admitting the candidate to Ordination, must arrive at a morally certain judgment regarding his qualities. In the case of a serious doubt, he must not admit him to Ordination.

The discernment of the vocation and the maturity of the candidate is also the grave duty of the rector and other formators in the Seminary. Before every Ordination, the rector must give his judgment on the qualities of the candidate required by the Church.

In discernment of the suitability for Ordination, the spiritual director has an important task. Even though he his bound by secrecy, he represents the Church in the internal forum. In meetings with the candidate, the spiritual director must clearly recall the Church's demands regarding priestly chastity and the specific affective maturity of the priest, as well as help him discern if he has the necessary qualities. He has the obligation to evaluate all the qualities of the personality and assure that the candidate does not have sexual disorders that are incompatible with priesthood. If a candidate is actively homosexual or shows deep-seated homosexual tendencies, his spiritual director, as well as his confessor, has the duty to dissuade him, in conscience, from proceeding towards Ordination.

It remains understood that the candidate himself is primarily responsible for his own formation. He must offer himself in trust to the discernment of the Church, of the Bishop that calls him to Orders, of the rector of the Seminary, of the spiritual director, and of any other educator in the Seminary to which the Bishop or General Superior has given the task of forming future priests. It would be gravely dishonest for a candidate to hide his own homosexuality, regardless of everything, to arrive at ordination. Such an inauthentic attitude does not correspond to the spirit of truth, loyalty, and availability that must characterise the personality of one who considers himself called to serve Christ and his Church in the ministerial priesthood.

CONCLUSION This Congregation reaffirms that it is necessity that Bishops, Superior Generals, and all those responsible carry out an attentive discernment regarding the suitability of candidates to Holy Orders, from the admission to Seminary to Ordination. This discernment must be done in light of a concept of ministerial priesthood that is in conformity with the teaching of the Church. Bishops, Episcopal Conferences, and Superior Generals should assure that the norms of this instruction are faithfully observed for the good of the candidates themselves and to always assure for the Church suitable priests, true shepherds according to the heart of Christ.

The Supreme Pontiff Benedict XVI, on 31 August 2005, approved this Instruction and ordered its publication.

Rome, 4 November 2005, Memorial of St Charles Borromeo, Patron of Seminaries.

Zenon Card. Grocholewski

Prefect

+ J. Michael Miller, C.S.B.

Titular Arch. of Vertara

Secretary

Catholic Ping - Please freepmail me if you want on/off this list


52 posted on 11/23/2005 5:54:57 AM PST by NYer (“Socialism is the religion people get when they lose their religion")
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To: jec1ny; american colleen; Lady In Blue; Salvation; narses; SMEDLEYBUTLER; redhead; ...
Concerning the Criteria of Vocational Discernment Regarding Persons With Homosexual Tendencies In View of Their Admission to Seminaries and Holy Orders

November 22, 2005English translation courtesy of The Tablet

INTRODUCTION In continuity with the teaching of the Second Vatican Council and, in particular, with the decree Optatam totius on priestly formation, the Congregation for Catholic Education has published various documents to promote an adequate integral formation of future priests, offering guidelines and precise norms concerning its different aspects. The Synod of Bishops in 1990 also reflected on priestly formation in the current circumstances, with the intention of complementing the conciliar teaching on this issue and make it more explicit and incisive in the contemporary world. Following this Synod, Pope John Paul II published the post-synodal Apostolic Exhortation Pastores dabo vobis.

In light of this rich teaching, the present Instruction does not intend to dwell on all the issues in the affective or sexual realm that require attentive discernment throughout the entire period of formation. It contains norms regarding a particular issue, made more urgent by the current situation, and that is the admission or not to Seminaries and Holy Orders of candidates that have deep-seated homosexual tendencies.

1. Affective maturity and spiritual fatherhood (paternity) According to the constant Tradition of the Church, only baptised males validly receive sacred Ordination. Through the sacrament of Orders the Holy Spirit configures the candidate, with a new and specific designation, to Jesus Christ: the priest, in fact, sacramentally represents Christ, Head, Shepherd, and Spouse of the Church. Because of this configuration to Christ, the entire life of the sacred minister must be animated by the gift of his entire person to the Church and by authentic pastoral charity.

The candidate for ordained ministry, therefore, must attain affective maturity. Such maturity will allow him to relate properly with men and women, developing in him a true sense of spiritual fatherhood for the ecclesial community that will be entrusted to him.

2. Homosexuality and Ordained Ministry Since the Second Vatican Council up until today, various documents from the Magisterium – especially the Catechism of the Catholic Church -- have confirmed the Church's teaching on homosexuality. The Catechism distinguishes between homosexual acts and homosexual tendencies.

Regarding acts, it teaches that, in Sacred Scripture, these are presented grave sins. Tradition has always considered them as intrinsically immoral and contrary to the natural law. As a consequence, they can never be approved under any circumstance.

As regards to deep-seated homosexual tendencies, which are present in a certain number of men and women, these also are objectively disordered and are often a trial for such people. They must be accepted with respect and sensitivity; every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfil God's will in their lives and to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord's Cross the difficulties they may encounter.

In the light of such teaching, this Dicastery, together with the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments, deems it necessary to clearly affirm that the Church, even while deeply respecting the persons in question, cannot admit to Seminary or Holy Orders those who are actively homosexual, have deep-seated homosexual tendencies, or support the so-called gay culture.

Such people, in fact, find themselves in a situation that seriously obstructs them from properly relating to men and women. The negative consequences that can result from the Ordination of persons with deep-seated homosexual tendencies should not be obscured.

When dealing, instead, with homosexual tendencies that might only be a manifestation of a transitory problem, as, for example, delayed adolescence, these must be clearly overcome at least three years before diaconal Ordination.

3. The Church's discernment of the suitability of candidates There are two inseparable aspects of every vocation: the free gift of God and the responsible freedom of man. The vocation is a gift of divine grace, received through the Church, in the Church, and for service of the Church. By responding to the call of God, man offers himself freely to Him in love. The mere desire to become a priest is not sufficient and there is no right to receive sacred Ordination. It rests with the Church -- in her responsibility to define the necessary requirements for reception of the Sacraments instituted by Christ -- to discern the suitability of the one who wishes to enter the Seminary, to accompany him during the years of formation, and to call him to Holy Orders, if he is judged to possess the required qualities.

The formation of the future priest must articulate, in an essential complementarity, the four dimensions of formation: human, spiritual, intellectual, and pastoral. In this context, it is important to recall the particular importance of human formation as the necessary foundation of all formation. To admit a candidate to diaconal Ordination, the Church must verify, among other things, that the candidate for priesthood has attained affective maturity.

The call to Orders is the personal responsibility of the Bishop or the General Superior. Keeping in mind the view of those to whom they entrusted the responsibility of formation, the Bishop or General Superior, before admitting the candidate to Ordination, must arrive at a morally certain judgment regarding his qualities. In the case of a serious doubt, he must not admit him to Ordination.

The discernment of the vocation and the maturity of the candidate is also the grave duty of the rector and other formators in the Seminary. Before every Ordination, the rector must give his judgment on the qualities of the candidate required by the Church.

In discernment of the suitability for Ordination, the spiritual director has an important task. Even though he his bound by secrecy, he represents the Church in the internal forum. In meetings with the candidate, the spiritual director must clearly recall the Church's demands regarding priestly chastity and the specific affective maturity of the priest, as well as help him discern if he has the necessary qualities. He has the obligation to evaluate all the qualities of the personality and assure that the candidate does not have sexual disorders that are incompatible with priesthood. If a candidate is actively homosexual or shows deep-seated homosexual tendencies, his spiritual director, as well as his confessor, has the duty to dissuade him, in conscience, from proceeding towards Ordination.

It remains understood that the candidate himself is primarily responsible for his own formation. He must offer himself in trust to the discernment of the Church, of the Bishop that calls him to Orders, of the rector of the Seminary, of the spiritual director, and of any other educator in the Seminary to which the Bishop or General Superior has given the task of forming future priests. It would be gravely dishonest for a candidate to hide his own homosexuality, regardless of everything, to arrive at ordination. Such an inauthentic attitude does not correspond to the spirit of truth, loyalty, and availability that must characterise the personality of one who considers himself called to serve Christ and his Church in the ministerial priesthood.

CONCLUSION This Congregation reaffirms that it is necessity that Bishops, Superior Generals, and all those responsible carry out an attentive discernment regarding the suitability of candidates to Holy Orders, from the admission to Seminary to Ordination. This discernment must be done in light of a concept of ministerial priesthood that is in conformity with the teaching of the Church. Bishops, Episcopal Conferences, and Superior Generals should assure that the norms of this instruction are faithfully observed for the good of the candidates themselves and to always assure for the Church suitable priests, true shepherds according to the heart of Christ.

The Supreme Pontiff Benedict XVI, on 31 August 2005, approved this Instruction and ordered its publication.

Rome, 4 November 2005, Memorial of St Charles Borromeo, Patron of Seminaries.

Zenon Card. Grocholewski

Prefect

+ J. Michael Miller, C.S.B.

Titular Arch. of Vertara

Secretary

Catholic Ping - Please freepmail me if you want on/off this list


53 posted on 11/23/2005 5:55:11 AM PST by NYer (“Socialism is the religion people get when they lose their religion")
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To: Aquinasfan
What was your point? I was alluding to the act of homosexuality being detestable to God and therefore should be plenty to keep a homosexual out of any position of religious authority.

From 1 Timothy, about who should be the overseers/teachers in the Church:

1Here is a trustworthy saying: If anyone sets his heart on being an overseer,[a] he desires a noble task. 2Now the overseer must be above reproach, the husband of but one wife, temperate, self-controlled, respectable, hospitable, able to teach, 3not given to drunkenness, not violent but gentle, not quarrelsome, not a lover of money. 4He must manage his own family well and see that his children obey him with proper respect. 5(If anyone does not know how to manage his own family, how can he take care of God's church?) 6He must not be a recent convert, or he may become conceited and fall under the same judgment as the devil. 7He must also have a good reputation with outsiders, so that he will not fall into disgrace and into the devil's trap. 8Deacons, likewise, are to be men worthy of respect, sincere, not indulging in much wine, and not pursuing dishonest gain. 9They must keep hold of the deep truths of the faith with a clear conscience. 10They must first be tested; and then if there is nothing against them, let them serve as deacons.

As you can see, it is clear that overseers/deacons are to be followers of God's Word and worthy of our respect, and above falling into the devil's trap - if that doesn't preclude homosexuals from serving as deacons/ministers/priests, what does?

God Bless

54 posted on 11/23/2005 5:57:30 AM PST by trebb ("I am the way... no one comes to the Father, but by me..." - Jesus in John 14:6 (RSV))
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To: mj1234
Amen Brother!

God Bless

55 posted on 11/23/2005 5:57:59 AM PST by trebb ("I am the way... no one comes to the Father, but by me..." - Jesus in John 14:6 (RSV))
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To: Blurblogger; shaggy eel
Antonio Gramsci is deeply saddened

As is Archbishop Jadot , Paul VI's apostolic delegate, who is responsible for the many bad bishops inflicted on US catholics.

56 posted on 11/23/2005 5:58:48 AM PST by NYer (“Socialism is the religion people get when they lose their religion")
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To: NYer
I understand - my point is that, if they had the stand, they should have removed the unfaithful bishops who refused to follow God's (and the Church's) Word. Otherwise, they might as well be condoning it by refusing to enforce it.

See my post 54

God Bless

57 posted on 11/23/2005 6:00:13 AM PST by trebb ("I am the way... no one comes to the Father, but by me..." - Jesus in John 14:6 (RSV))
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To: ZULU

Don't forget the ELCA! My wife and I left them to return to the LCMS this spring over this issue (among other things).


58 posted on 11/23/2005 6:03:05 AM PST by bcsco
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To: jec1ny

Good news.


59 posted on 11/23/2005 6:03:59 AM PST by alarm rider (Irritating leftists as often as is humanly possible....)
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To: little jeremiah
My question is does it apply to men who are already ordained?

No but don't be surprised if some of them choose to leave. The bigger question, however, is whether bishops who flagrantly ignore this "instruction" (as they have done in the past), will be held accountable.

60 posted on 11/23/2005 6:06:06 AM PST by NYer (“Socialism is the religion people get when they lose their religion")
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