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EADS sees no sales impact from new Boeing jumbo
AFP via Yahoo ^ | Nov. 22, 2005

Posted on 11/22/2005 12:28:10 PM PST by Righty_McRight

DUBAI (AFP) - US manufacturer Boeing's new 747-8 jumbojet will not impact on sales of European aircraft maker Airbus' A380 giant plane, according to the head of the European aerospace and defence group EADS.

"The 747-8 is more designed for the cargo market and therefore we do not anticipate that it will impact sales of the A380," Noel Forgeard, chief executive officer of EADS which has an 80-percent stake in Airbus, told local media on Tuesday.

"In a passenger configuration the A380 can carry 555 passengers still more than the 747-8," he said.

The 747-8 launched by Boeing in September offers 450 seats, while Airbus' A380 can carry between 555 and 840 passengers.

Addressing concerns about the longstanding dispute between the US and the European Union over allegations of illegal subsidies, Forgeard said: "there are no subsidies, Airbus receives refundable loans which are repaid with interest."

"We do not wish to prolong this matter and we are very flexible on reaching a settlement," he said.

Forgeard, a former president of Airbus, has recently been named co-president of EADS together with German Thomas Enders, following a long dispute among shareholders.

"We work well together and are different personalities, however I think it is clear that it would be easier if there was one," Forgeard said.


TOPICS: Business/Economy
KEYWORDS: 7478; a380; airbus; boeing; eads
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1 posted on 11/22/2005 12:28:11 PM PST by Righty_McRight
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To: Righty_McRight

The Boyd group thinks differently


A-380 WhaleJet: Even Less Demand Than Earlier Predicted

We are now revising our current Global Fleet Demand Forecast to accommodate the decision by Boeing to build a follow-on to the 747.

As before, the net in-fleet requirements for airliners in the +400 seat category is not expected to be particularly robust in terms of growth. However, the advent of the 747-8 represents the injection of new dynamics in the demand mix.

First, if this slightly larger model has significantly better economics, it would face strong demand mostly as a one-on-one replacement for the -400, as well as some A-340s. Since used widebodies will likely have very limited aftermarket demand as passenger airplanes, this would tend to shove a lot of additional 747-400s into the cargo conversion arena, which could have no telling what effect on residual values.

However, one effect it could have would be to yank just enough potential orders out from under the A-380 to make that program really, really financially challenging for Airbus. Just a dozen feet longer than the -400, the new 747 would not face a world where relatively few airports could handle it, making it a much more flexible aircraft than the A-380. And if the 747-8 can deprive the A-380 of say, 50 or 60 orders it would have otherwise registered, it could make sleeping at night much more difficult for the folks at Toulouse.

You Want the A-380? Or What's Behind Door #3? Boeing by no means holds all the cards. The A-380's flying now. The 747-8 is at least three years away. That means the pressure's on Airbus to peddle as many A-380s as fast as possible in the next 12 months to keep potential customers from deciding to wait for the new Boeing.

So for airlines, it's going to be let's-make-a-deal time with the local Airbus salesman. That, however, puts pricing pressure on Airbus - pricing pressure created by what right now is essentially a concept airplane.

The pressure is also on at Airbus to assure that the A-380 doesn't disappoint when it comes to promised performance and delivery dates. Otherwise, the Europeans will find that they've essentially built the successor to the MD-11.

Regardless, The 747-8 Will Take A Toll. As it stands, the A-380 has about 160 orders, give or take what might be announced this week at the air show in Dubai. With the 747-8 on the horizon, our initial pass at global fleet needs now points to a demand for fewer than 350 A-380s over the next 15 years.

http://www.aviationplanning.com/asrc1.htm


2 posted on 11/22/2005 12:32:00 PM PST by saganite (The poster formerly known as Arkie 2)
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To: saganite
I hate dealing with the wait to get off of a 737. I can't imagine waiting for 800 passengers to deplane.

/john

3 posted on 11/22/2005 1:02:55 PM PST by JRandomFreeper (D@mit! I'm just a cook. Don't make me come over there and prove it!)
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To: Aeronaut; Paleo Conservative

EADS-whistling-past-the-graveyard ping!


4 posted on 11/22/2005 1:08:25 PM PST by Yo-Yo
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To: saganite
"With the 747-8 on the horizon, our initial pass at global fleet needs now points to a demand for fewer than 350 A-380s over the next 15 years."

Ouch. A far cry from the 1200+ Airbus was predicting for planes of this size. Airbus's CEO also predicted the demise of the entire 747 line by 2006. If Airbus is lucky, 350 sales might get them to the breakeven point unless they really start discounting to prevent 747-800 sales.
5 posted on 11/22/2005 1:09:10 PM PST by CALawyer
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To: Righty_McRight

Thousands of Concorde orders in the wings! /sarc


6 posted on 11/22/2005 1:12:01 PM PST by Freedom_Fighter_2001 (When money is no object - it's your money they're talking about)
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To: Yo-Yo; Tijeras_Slim; FireTrack; Pukin Dog; citabria; B Knotts; kilowhskey; cyphergirl; ...

7 posted on 11/22/2005 1:13:03 PM PST by Aeronaut (It is deeply irresponsible to rewrite the history of how the war began.)
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To: Righty_McRight

It just shows how incompetent EADS is. What do you expect from a socialistic enterprise?


8 posted on 11/22/2005 1:18:42 PM PST by Brilliant
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To: JRandomFreeper; saganite
I hate dealing with the wait to get off of a 737. I can't imagine waiting for 800 passengers to deplane.

Or even worse having to deal with 800 passengers in the baggage claim area then contending with thousands of of people from other flights to go through customs.

9 posted on 11/22/2005 1:20:32 PM PST by Paleo Conservative (Hey hey ho ho Andy Heyward's got to go!)
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To: Paleo Conservative

Yep, imagine 3 or 4 A-380s arriving within minutes of each other, you could have up to 3000 people milling around 4 baggage carousels and lined up at 3 customs gates (that always seems to be all that are manned when I pass through).

I'd expect a few "postal" moments.


10 posted on 11/22/2005 1:36:35 PM PST by hattend (In France, it's not just the cheese that's soft and runny.)
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To: Righty_McRight
"we do not anticipate that it will impact sales of the A380"


11 posted on 11/22/2005 1:50:03 PM PST by orionblamblam ("You're the poster boy for what ID would turn out if it were taught in our schools." VadeRetro)
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To: Paleo Conservative
"The 747-8 is more designed for the cargo market and therefore we do not anticipate that it will impact sales of the A380," Noel Forgeard, chief executive officer of EADS which has an 80-percent stake in Airbus, told local media on Tuesday.

I guess they don't expect to sell anymore a380 freighters?
12 posted on 11/22/2005 2:02:19 PM PST by Righty_McRight
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To: Brilliant
There is a market for the A-380 - flights to and from slot-restricted mega-hub airports like London Heathrow and Tokyo Narita. And Emirates is trying to use A-380s to pack passengers in like sardines on ultra-long haul flights to places like India.

But I think Airbus overestimated how large the market is. The trend is using smaller aircraft to fly point-to-point service for longer distances. There aren't many widebody jets flying transcontinental routes in North America any more. And Continental and American are even flying 757s to smaller cities in Europe.

You're not going to see the A-380 much around these parts. Maybe at Kennedy and LAX. And Fed Ex will use them in Memphis. But that's about it.
13 posted on 11/22/2005 2:43:20 PM PST by conservative in nyc
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To: saganite
There is also another a/c in the wings, to coin a phrase.

Think a stretched 747, as in 747-8, with the new wing, with a 767 on top. 9-10 wide on the bottom (coach) 7 wide on the top (coach.) 6-7 wide on the bottom (F and B) 4-6 wide on top (F and B.)

Serviced by 5 special jetways, 3 to bottom deck, 2 to top. Special gates allow for multiple area check-in and boarding.

700+ pax.
14 posted on 11/22/2005 3:04:59 PM PST by MindBender26 (Having my own CAR-15 in RVN meant never having to say I was sorry......)
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To: conservative in nyc
But I think Airbus overestimated how large the market is.

Isn't that a major league faux pas for the Socialsti?

15 posted on 11/22/2005 3:11:47 PM PST by Freedom_Fighter_2001 (When money is no object - it's your money they're talking about)
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To: Brilliant
"It just shows how incompetent EADS is. What do you expect from a socialistic enterprise?"

They're more than socialistic. EADS has a bureaucracy that rivals the Soviet Union's. The assignment of staff is all politics (the correct balance of Germans, Brits, Frogs, Italians, Belgians, etc.) and they reorganize every 18 months -- meaning, the management spends 12 months out of 18 either jockeying and planning for the next reorganization, or figuring out how to operate the company after the last reorg.

I once attended a briefing by an EADS Director(pretty far down the management chain) and the first 30 minutes was spent going over the organization. The briefer had no idea that the names of the idiots on top was of zero interest to us.

16 posted on 11/22/2005 3:14:02 PM PST by tom h
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To: Righty_McRight
"Forgeard, a former president of Airbus, has recently been named co-president of EADS together with German Thomas Enders, following a long dispute among shareholders."

Co-presidents? Ought to work as well as when Billary was in the White House. I am thinking here of the fights they had, including Hillary throwing the ashtray at Bill. Wonder if the Secret Service thought they should charge her with an assassination attempt, as she hurled the ashtray and said, "I want to kill you, Bill."

17 posted on 11/22/2005 3:18:20 PM PST by tom h
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To: orionblamblam

OMG! As if!


18 posted on 11/22/2005 4:48:18 PM PST by phantomworker (A new day! Begin it serenely; with too high a spirit to be encumbered with your old nonsense!)
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To: saganite; Righty_McRight; COEXERJ145; RayChuang88; Central Scrutiniser
You Want the A-380? Or What's Behind Door #3? Boeing by no means holds all the cards. The A-380's flying now. The 747-8 is at least three years away. That means the pressure's on Airbus to peddle as many A-380s as fast as possible in the next 12 months to keep potential customers from deciding to wait for the new Boeing.

So for airlines, it's going to be let's-make-a-deal time with the local Airbus salesman. That, however, puts pricing pressure on Airbus - pricing pressure created by what right now is essentially a concept airplane.

Excuse me. Airbus doesn't have lots of slots available on its A380 line for 2009 delivery anyway. They are already six months behind on their original orders. Boeing has lots of latent manufacturing capacity on its 747 line which was already paid for decades ago. Currently they are building just one 747-400 a month which is the minimum rate to keep the line open. I bet some first time new build 747 customers like UPS and Volga-Dnepr got some really good prices on 747 freighters just to keep the line moving while the 747-8 is in developement and testing. If Boeing gets the orders, they could easily surge their production to 3 or 4 per month possibly more. I hear Airbus is having lots of trouble increasing capacity for its A380 line.

19 posted on 11/22/2005 5:34:42 PM PST by Paleo Conservative (Hey hey ho ho Andy Heyward's got to go!)
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To: Yo-Yo; Righty_McRight; COEXERJ145; microgood; liberallarry; cmsgop; shaggy eel; RayChuang88; ...

If you want on or off my aerospace ping list, please contact me by Freep mail.

20 posted on 11/22/2005 5:36:19 PM PST by Paleo Conservative (Hey hey ho ho Andy Heyward's got to go!)
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