Getting the Lowdown on Iraq

Time ^ | Nov. 20, 2005 | SALLY B. DONNELLY

[NickatNite2003]

If the Repulblican Chairman of the Senate Armed Services Committee wants to get a second opinion on how the war in Iraq is going, where does he turn? To the Pentagon, but not to the top brass this time. In an unusual closed-door meeting on Capitol Hill last week, Virginia's John Warner, joined by Democratic Senators Carl Levin of Michigan and Mark Dayton of Minnesota, sat across the table from 10 military officers chosen for their experience on the battlefield rather than in the political arena. Warner rounded up the battalion commanders to get at what the military calls "ground truth"--the unvarnished story of what's going on in Iraq.

"We wanted the view from men who had been on the tip of the spear, and we got it," said John Ullyot, a Warner spokesman who declined to comment on what was said at the meeting but confirmed that some Capitol Hill staff members were also present. According to two sources with knowledge of the meeting, the Army and Marine officers were blunt. In contrast to the Pentagon's stock answer that there are enough troops on the ground in Iraq, the commanders said that they not only needed more manpower but also had repeatedly asked for it. Indeed, military sources told TIME that as recently as August 2005, a senior military official requested more troops but got turned down flat.

[NickatNite2003]

Donnelly or her source better be lying or all the respect i have had for Rumsfeld, is going to turn into despising fury. This better danm well be a lie.

[stocksthatgoup]

Those at the TIP OF THE SPEAR will always conclude they do not have enough troops. IF 5 is good 10 is better. If ten is good give us 100 etc. The view from the ground is not the same as the view from above. Ever field commander wants to flood the zone. Coaches and generals see the advantages of sometimes spreading the offense.

[stocksthatgoup]

What we dont need is Carl Levin and John Warner running the war by focus group.

[NickatNite2003]

These aren't "tip of the spear" soldiers. they
are logistics and tactical officers..they're
billeted at the Pentagon fer Gawds sake.

THIS BETTER DAMN WELL BE DIMOLIAR BULLSH*T
RUMMY!!!!

[R. Scott]

Virginia's John Warner, joined by Democratic Senators Carl Levin of Michigan and Mark Dayton of Minnesota, sat across the table from 10 military officers chosen for their experience on the battlefield rather than in the political arena.

My Senator (Warner) finally did something right. Rumsfeld is a political appointee, and as such he will tell the President what he feels the President wants to hear. Rumsfield generally talks to the high ranking flag officers – who are in general politically minded people. They will tell Rumsfield what they think he wants to hear. The light colonels in the field will (with few exceptions) give a truer picture.

[Alia]

sat across the table from 10 military officers chosen for their experience on the battlefield rather than in the political arena.

[plumcrazy]

This is truly getting out-of-control. President Bush must give his full and undivided attention to the conduct of the Iraq war and put all domestic issues on the back burner until this crisis passes.

We can and must "win" this war.

[R. Scott]

These aren't "tip of the spear" soldiers. they are logistics and tactical officers..they're billeted at the Pentagon fer Gawds sake.

“ ‘We wanted the view from men who had been on the tip of the spear, and we got it,’ said John Ullyot, a Warner spokesman…”
“Who HAD been at the tip”. They rotate in and out of slots – they do not stay in a combat zone for the duration.

[Alia]

Ever field commander wants to flood the zone.

Bingo.

[stocksthatgoup]

We are winning this war. Who can tell me they thought we would have liberated this country, had a constituion in place, held 2 elections, had the support of the majority of the Iraqis, lost less than 8,000 troops in less than 3 years? Documented replies welcome!

[stocksthatgoup]

Warner is a wimp and has been in DC way too long.

[Paloma_55]

Donnelly or her source better be lying or all the respect i have had for Rumsfeld, is going to turn into despising fury. This better danm well be a lie.

Odds are, it is a misrepresentation of the comments coming from ill-informed people.

The US has a challenge to have a large enough force to be 100% effective without having such a large force that we become an apparent oppressor. It is a difficult balance.

We are losing a few guys a week at the most over there. While every life is important, it is not like we are suffering massive losses. I think the balance must be pretty good.

Keep in mind, the more the media attacks our presense over there, the LOWER the number of guys we will have over there and that will increase the danger as we move away from the balance point.

[SoFloFreeper]

Those at the TIP OF THE SPEAR will always conclude they do not have enough troops. IF 5 is good 10 is better. If ten is good give us 100 etc. The view from the ground is not the same as the view from above. Ever field commander wants to flood the zone. Coaches and generals see the advantages of sometimes spreading the offense.

Not only is this accurate in military matters, it is the same for nearly ALL business. In my line of work, the boss asks what I want, or how many people I need, and I'll find the need for four or five extra people to our crew of seven or eight...even though we're doing the job now!

Of COURSE more would be better and make the job easier. Can we do the job now? Yes, and very successfully. Warner should not make this a witch hunt.

[NickatNite2003]

I am willing to give Rummy a benefit of a doubt..
that there are facts not in evidece...but if the
substance of the charge made, that our troops
are being *denied* what they need, to do their jobs
*flatly* denied...Then i'm not goinf to be assuaged
until the heads of those responsible are bouncing
off a tree stump, and rolling in the dirt and blood
gushing out of their necks. *I* will be calling for
our troops to be brought back home until honorable and
competent command can be re-established.

[stocksthatgoup]

So where has there been any charge of denial?

[stocksthatgoup]

This reporter found someone to say his request was turned down.......Oh the humanity!

[verity]

Do not believe the spin.

LTC's command battalion size elements whose subordinate units have MTOE's that provide for a specific number of personnel and equipment. If a specific mission requires more personnel, the battalion can be augmented by the temporary attachment of one or more units.

LTC's in command positions are expert in tactical operations in their AO. They are not expert in the Strategic view at the 2 star and above level.

[R. Scott]

Warner is a wimp and has been in DC way too long.

I whole agree 100%, and this may have been an attempt by Warner (supposedly a Republican) and his democrat friends to make this administration look bad – but something good may come out of it. I particularly liked the statement, The officers also stressed that the lack of manpower--rather than of protective armor or signal jammers--posed one of the biggest obstacles in dealing with roadside bombs, which have caused the majority of U.S. casualties in Iraq. High tech for the sake of high tech didn’t impress me when I was in, and it doesn’t impress me now that I am retired. It has its place, but too often it is better for the suppliers than for the troops.

[NickatNite2003]

Quote: "In contrast to the Pentagon's stock answer that there are enough troops on the ground in Iraq, the commanders said that they not only needed more manpower but also had repeatedly asked for it. Indeed, military sources told TIME that as recently as August 2005, a senior military official requested more troops but got turned down flat."

[Jim Noble]

had the support of the majority of the Iraqis,

What is going on in Iraq is a war.

Wars are not decided by plebiscite.

The enemy has to be defeated, not voted out.

Defeated means either that they all have to be killed (this is rarely necessary), or that their will to fight has to be crushed.

Most critics of the Iraq war from our side, myself included, question the will-crushing aspect of combat operations.