Posted on 11/21/2005 12:14:01 AM PST by neverdem
We don't want to be like the Japanese?
Let me ask you a question: At your place of employment you get to choose a summer intern to work for you. One is a product of Asian elementary schools and one is a product of American public schools. Which would you choose?
Are you aware that the children of many immigrants excel within a few years after arriving here? Some of the Vietnamese, Japanese and Chinese students learn English rapidly (if they don't already know it) and many go to the top of the class within a year or two.
Funny, the United States managed to educate and assimilate hordes of non-English speaking immigrants 100 years ago ... not to mention a large population of previously uneducated black Americans.
The problem is not the people themselves, and the educational deficiencies they begin with, but the ideology that says they should be left as they are out of "respect" for their "culture."
Never question American omnipotence, you will get the hate on from those who would rather think nice things and feel good about themselves.
You've nailed the problem.
A change in Society, youth's attitudes toward education, heroes, Hollywood's glorifing criminal behavior, etc. will have to take place before any progress is made.
Schools are part of the problem but as the saying goes,
You can lead a horse to water , but you can't make him drink.'
Every culture has it's good and bad. I'm sure the Japanese have a bunch of reasons why they don't want to be like us either, LOL. In any case, we should emulate the good parts of their education system
Public schools are bad all over the country. That goes for places with few English speakers and those with 100% English speakers. The hispanics are not the reason our schools are failing.
Are you sure? Assimilation was working rather poorly until the Immigration Act of 1926, the Great Depression and then World War II shut it down. The melting pot worked great when it was coupled with a 50 year immigration hiatus. As far as our schools went, I think you would find that far more people dropped out and that there was far higher illiteracy 100 years ago then there is today.
That is really not true. Schools are wasteful and too expensive but lots of schools are achieving decent educational outcomes. There is nothing wrong with the schools here in Wyoming.
My guess is that if you were to identify the bottom 30% of schools they would almost all be located in inner cities and most of them would be overloaded with English as a second language students. Further, without this bottom 30%, if we were to look at the remaining 70% we would be reasonably satisfied with the quality of the educational outcomes. Kids from these schools are learning Reading, Writing and Arithmetic. We would probably still have a substantial beef about the cost, the waste and the liberal agenda being taught.
Their present leaders continue paying respect /tribute to the war criminals, this is a direct result of the twisted Japanese education.
The first paragraph of this OpEd states: "The United States will become a second-rate economic power unless it can match the educational performance of its rivals abroad and get more of its students to achieve at the highest levels in math, science and literacy."
That's the point of this thread. Math and Science teaching in this country is appalling for $10,000 per student per year. Why do you think I bothered to put those links in comment# 1?
If you want to rant about Japanese nationalism and their denial of their history, do it on "Ugly Images of Asian Rivals Become Best Sellers in Japan ".
You might find this Wall Street Journal article interesting: The New White Flight. Basically it says that White students are fleeing from these California public schools because there is too much emphasis and competition in the math and science subjects from Asians. I don't know if it is true but it is food for thought.
This article is so empty. Charter schools or a market based solution is the key to school reform.
http://www.neoperspectives.com/charterschoolsexplained.htm
I choose which one would be a better fit in the office.
In my experience dealing with college aged kids - all else being equal - I'd hire the student who was the product of the Japanese school.
That reminds me of a conversation I had with a college chemistry professor who taught high school chemistry for a couple years. He had begun teaching after a long career in the private sector.
He was taken to task by the principal for nor constructing a lesson plan. He found it unnecessary because he actually knew his subject.
He was also subjected to a program to train teachers in a method of instruction that, instead of actually imparting knowledge to the students, allowed them to "discover" knowledge on their own, so that they would "own" that knowledge. Afterwards, he asked the education professor why he hadn't used that enlightened approach himself to teach that very class? The prof's reply was that "It would take too long"!
While watching my daughter's gymanstics class, I sit by a couple of 3rd graders who use the time to do their math homework. They are doing simple add/subtraction on their fingers !
There is also a 7th grader who is doing the new math where the students are supposed to deduce the mathematical ideas on their own. The teacher actually made the parents sign a pledge not to help their kids at home!
Watching these kids, I am so thankful that we homeschool. We use Saxon math, and they stress repetition and memorization. It works !
BINGO!
What you said can't be repeated often enough!
_______________________
"I just want to remind you of one thing: Last I heard, the United States was the only nation who tested and reported all of its students, not just the ones on the college track. If that's correct, then apples are being compared to oranges here."
Look, I respect the Japanese schools - I've worked alongside Japanese teachers and students. Japan is also a culture where many moms sit with their children and review homework nightly. Teachers are revered throughout society. Discipline is expected and enforced, up to and including beatings. There are enormously high expectations, which lead to high levels of suicide for students who don't make the cut.
Here's what I see from my teacher's desk. Parents who work with their children before they arrive in school and expect excellence usually get it. Teachers work in a system that rewards longevity through the system of tenure. An excellent teacher makes just as much money as a slacker or an incompetent; therefore, the American teacher feels subtle and overt pressure to reduce quality. The society as a whole considers teachers, for the most part, to be useless at worst and impediments to learning at best. How many times do you here about American success stories who didn't go to college or dropped out of high school? As far as the union and the education colleges go... let me corral my epithets and simply state both institutions are useless.
If you are an American student with high standards and a willingness to learn, there are great opportunities. If you want to do nothing, though, no one's standing in your way.
My choice? I'd love to see vouchers and school choice in the Milton Friedman model. I'd do well; some of my colleagues would either have to work harder or start delivering pizzas; parents would control their educational destiny of their children. I'd love to dissolve federal intervention in education, too. No Child Left Behind hides a dirty little secret - school districts can manipulate stats to show that they are "meeting the standards" without actually improving the education of students. However, it's much harder to hide incompetence when you can just walk in the door and see it for yourself.
Just my two cents.
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