Posted on 11/20/2005 2:10:53 PM PST by Dr. Scarpetta
I have just heard on the news that now they are not charging the young fellow with kidnapping, as they say that Kara willingly went with him...
We shall just have to wait and see how this unfolds...it may also be, that she was so frightened at his killing of her parents, that she went into shock, and just said she would go with him, to prevent him from killing her, or her siblings....I dont know what to think...
Each new day, may bring some new information...we will all have to wait and see what happens next...
One of my first thoughts on learning of this tragedy was, "Why didn't the Bordens call Ludwig's parents for a meeting? Obviously this 18-year-old and their own head-strong daughter were not going to listen to reason."
Sadly, it's too late to change the facts.
She may very well be up to her eyeballs in this. It's also possible she may not have known her parents were dead and thought they were just running away. She's 14 and he's 18 though. Even if she went willingly wouldn't it still be kidnapping?
Thanks for your kind comments...yes indeed, often saying NO to your child can be the hardest thing in the world...
When my younger son turned 16, he was eligible to get his drivers license, if I or my husband would sign for him..he had the drivers ed in school, and he was a good driver, as I let him drive, when I was with him(and he was using his drivers permit)...Neither my husband or I would sign for him...we thought 16 was too young for him to be driving on his own...He was not exactly happy with our decision, but he accepted it, as he knew we thought him driving at 16 was too young...
But the day he turned 18, he had a friend take him to the DMV, and he got his license...I remember when he came home, he grinned and flashed his license in front of my eyes...He was so happy that he passed on the first try...I was happy too...
What he did not know, was that my husband and I had decided that if he could go the two years from age 16-18, without complaining or whining that he did not have a drivers license, that we would buy him a second hand car...since he respected our wishes and never brought it up ever during those two years, that he was the only guy in his group who did not have a drivers license, we got him the second hand Camarro, that he had his eye on...
So it all worked out...but raising children can be difficult, especially when they are teens and think that they 'know' everything...and saying NO, is part of being a parents, and hearing and accepting that NO, is part of being a child...
From the latest I have heard, Kara did see David kill her parents, and then she ran out the door...how accurate that is I dont know...but then they said, that she was outside of the house, after the murders, and that she jumped into Davids car, ,and that they were going to run away, get married and start a new life...now thats today news, that I heard a little while ago...who this info is coming from whether its David or Kara or both, I dont know...
They said, if the evidence shows that she went along with him willingly, ,then its no longer a kidnapping...
I don't know why but I smiled when I read that. Amusement, I guess. I hope you are still blessed to have your savvy GM around and I'm interested to know what you thought of your grandmother's no-nonsense approach later on in life.
I just read that on Cincinnati.com News Flash. Frankly I'm not surprised. If it turns out she was part of a premediated plan to do away with her parents, God help her. She has to be one messed-up kid, along with the other. Have you heard if David Ludwig has expressed any regrets for his crime? (Not that it will bring back the Borden parents)
No, I have heard nothing to suggest, that David has offered any regrets about killing the parents, or even an apology to the other children for making them orphans...I feel so bad for Karas other siblings, ,and hope that there is an extended family, that will offer them a home together...because now these children will all be the more precious to each other, they will need each other, to find some comfort and solace...
I am so hoping that Kara was not really willingly involved, as that would be such a blow to her siblings...
We will just have to wait and see what other news comes out...
Its just all so sad anytime of the year, but now, at the holidays when family and friends mean so much, its got to be so hard on everyone involved...
As I mentioned though, she made me mind. Skipping school got her all riled. Education was not open for discussion. Many mornings I would hear her stomping up the stairs and watch her get down on her hands and knees and sweep me out from under the bed where I would hid to keep from going to school.
Possibly David may be in a mental state where he can hardly believe he did such an awful thing. We don't know much about this young man. As you say, Kara's siblings have been made orphans, and all in a couple of minutes of what?...Youthful passion?
Though I haven't heard they have extended family, I hope they do. The boys in their twenties needed their parents and have to be suffering. The thirteen and nine year old children must have a secure home with wise, loving relatives. Hopefully we will get to know that this is the case.
IF Kara played a major role in this murder, I don't believe she will ever be able to forgive herself for it, nor the pain and deprivations she brought on her siblings. If that is true, her life, at age 14, is for all intents and purposes, over.
Looking at a positive possibility, with help she may devote her life to working with young people who need guidance.
Had to chuckle reading this. My wife's oldest sister was a doorslammer as a teen. Their father was a quiet guy (also the wisest man I've ever met). One time oldest sister slammed her bedroom after being reminded not to do it. Without saying anything further, their dad got his tools and removed the door from the hinges for a month. Talk about torture for a teenage girl with 2 younger sisters! They still kid about it 40 years later.
Well, if these reports do pan out to be true, I think both David and Kara will have lives that will be over in one way or another...they will get older, and will realize that what they did was so awful...I am not sure, that even now, it has sunk into either one of them, that they took two innocent lives...all they were concerned about was themselves, and not anyone else...
Most teens do things that they wish they had not done...I know, I look back at myself and shake my head in wonder, at what a bratty immature girl I was, when I was fourteen...and I know I did things that were wrong...but nothing that could not be forgiven by my parents with an apology from me, and some punishment from them...and I went on, and grew up, ,and realized the goodness and wiseness of my parents...and I learned from my mistakes...but David and Kara, if guilty of what we know so far, will never be able to get any forgiveness in any meaningful way from Karas parents...because the parents are now dead...
I do feel sorry for the both of them, as they are relatively so young(to me anyone under 60 is young), and now their lives are destroyed forever...its a very sad situation for everyone involved...
I have not heard much about Davids family so far...but I am sure, that they are also in absolute shock, and cannot believe what has happened...
No one wins, everyone loses, all because a couple of teenagers, had to have their own way, and were bent on violence to get that way...
I didn't catch the TV news on this today though I'm sure it will be on later. I read on Cincinnati.com News Flash that, according to prosecutors, Kara said she intended to run off with David. He said the same thing. There was no mention of her involvement or beforehand knowledge of the shootings.
"...just being used though."
When I consider the hormonal effects alone which teens have to navigate past on their way to adulthood, maybe this fellow was obsessed with Kara, couldn't imagine being without her.
What we are doing is speculating because we want to figure it all out and we just don't have all the facts.
Totally understandable. I hope you have realized that since then. And I am very sorry you lost your Dad so early in your life. My Dad died weeks before his 81st birthday and it was too soon for me. I went through all the "arrangements" necessary, the family "viewing" at the funeral parlor, the Mass, and the cemetery, and couldn't shed a tear.
Following all that I would sit alone in the evening and cry my heart out.
A thirteen-year-old might not do the same, and I can understand it. It's just OK!
Very, very sad. They were a wonderful Christian couple.
If such evil can enter into a child in this family, it can enter in anywhere.
Parents, be ever vigilant. Do not calmly appease your 14 year old daughters when they say they are in love.
These parents were good and kind, but too naive.
Kara Borden was not kidnapped. When the whole story comes out, we will most likely learn that she was also in on the planning.
LANCASTER, Pa. - A 14-year-old girl whose 18-year-old boyfriend allegedly fatally shot her parents left willingly with him after the slayings and was not kidnapped, prosecutors said in court papers filed Monday.
Kara Borden told detectives she left of her own free will, according to the filing. David Ludwig told detectives the two planned to get married and start a new life together.
Ludwig confessed to the slayings after his arrest and told police where to find the murder weapon in his car, according to court documents released Monday in Indiana.
In court documents filed in Pennsylvania, prosecutors said Kara Borden ran from her home to get into Ludwig's car after the Nov. 13 shootings.
"(Kara) told the defendant that she wanted to stay with him, and they drove west with the intent to 'get as far away as possible, get married, and start a new life,'" Ludwig told detectives, according to the court papers.
District Attorney Donald Totaro said Monday the kidnapping charge against Ludwig, of Lititz, will be dropped at his preliminary hearing next month.
Earlier Monday, Indiana authorities released a search warrant affidavit for the car the couple drove nearly 600 miles from the murder scene in central Pennsylvania to Indiana.
Ludwig told Indiana State Police that a Glock semiautomatic pistol he used to kill Michael and Cathryn Borden was under the driver's front seat of his parents' car, according to the affidavit.
Police seized a .40-caliber Glock pistol, a .223-caliber rifle and several articles of black clothing under a search warrant executed Wednesday. Under a separate search warrant executed Friday, police said they found a .45-caliber Colt pistol, a screwdriver, several maps and two Indiana license plates.
Ludwig told police that there were several guns in the car.
"He certainly did make a statement and cooperated with police," said Hendricks County (Ind.) prosecutor Patricia A. Baldwin. "They basically let him talk is what they did."
Police have said the murder weapon was a .40-caliber handgun.
***snip***
Some teens believe they ARE mature, that mom and dad are old-fashioned and just don't understand. Most teenagers cannot perceive their lives beyond where they are at the moment. No one should expect it...we were all there at one time.
In today's world we frequently hear that some people's solutions to marital problems or teen/parent disagreements is to kill those who stand in the way of what they want. I'd like to say it is unbelievable, but it's TRUE!
I emphasis "today's world". In previous generation in this country, people dealt with plenty of problems but I believe murder was rarely their solution.
Could the devaluation of life be a factor?
Either misquoted or he used the wrong word. He may have meant to say "unloved".
Not to be sarcastic but what else besides senility or alzeimer's disease will wipe it out of their minds? I am sad for this tragedy and for those who lose their mental functions.
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