[Zionist Conspirator]

Re your 236, as a former chr*stian Noachide I find myself somewhat in the middle between Jews who insist that the only way a Jew can betray his heritage is to become a chr*stian, and Fundamentalist Protestants who insist that a Jewish chr*stian is a "completed Jew." I reject both positions.

And the theology of Jews for J is not "pure chr*stian theology;" it is Protestant theology. Historical chr*stianity (as practiced in the ancient liturgical churches for fifteen hundred years) is just as much a legal/ritual system as Judaism ever was (only with different rituals, different holidays, etc.). Historical chr*stians have never been "saved" but have spent their lives praying for forgiveness, confessing their sins, doing penance, etc., while trying to walk a tightrope over Hell, and this was the way all chr*stianity operated until Martin Luther. That being the case, what was the point of a new religion when there already was one? It's no wonder that Jews who convert to chr*stianity convert to Fundamentalist Protestantism; in addition to a more philo-Semitic worldview the hypocrisy is less blatant (ie, attacking the "works" of the Torah but defending the works of the "new law"). I've long said that liturgical chr*stianity preaches Protestantism to the Jews and Judaism to the Protestants, but liturgical chr*stians seem incapable of seeing or understanding this.

Please understand that I know you will respond by saying that today's Fundamentalist Protestantism represents "true original chr*stianity" supposedly restored after centuries of being obscured by "baptized heathenism," but this is simply a historical fiction, however dogmatically Protestants must hold it. I used to believe as you do, so there's no way I can go back to an error I have already forever disabused myself of.

I suggest we "agree to disagree."

[The Ghost of FReepers Past]

Read the New Testament. That's all you need to know what I mean. You are seeing historical Christianity through Catholic eyes -- or something close to that -- and not through New Testament study. If you are going to speak for me and mine, you should at least go to the correct source. Your view is completely inaccurate.

I've been in the agree to disagree mode throughout this thread. That doesn't mean we can't understand each other.

[The Ghost of FReepers Past]

You seem to think that because of your history you can speak for both Jews and Christians. If this thread is any example, you do not speak for either perfectly. That's fine. You speak for your own unique situation and perspective. I can respect that. But you are not accurately representing Chrisitanity, even though you seem so sure that you are.

[The Ghost of FReepers Past]

And the theology of Jews for J is not "pure chr*stian theology;" it is Protestant theology

And one more point on this...I was talking about the theology that says they can call themselves Jewish and Christian at the same time. I was not talking about faith versus works versus faith works (faith that works). Read that issue for yourself in the New Testament. It is thoroughly examined there. And the New Testament was written by Jews for Jesus, and they extensively quote the Old Testament. It was offensive to Jews who do not accept Christ as the Jewish Messiah THEN, and it is offensive to them now. It is not hard to see why. It's unresolvable. But Jews for Jesus see Jesus as the Messiah prophesied about in the OT -- THE JEWISH MESSIAH. That's how they see it, and it is pure Christian theology that Catholics and Protestants would agree on.

For example, I will let them speak for themselves and THOSE WHO ARE OFFENED BY THIS CAN JUST NOT FOLLOW THE LINKS:

Evidence that Jesus fulfilled prophecy

Messianic Prophecy

Over 300 Prophecies in the Hebrew Scriptures concerning the Messiah

Top Ten Fulfilled Prophecies

Theological Issues