You're terminated.
Posted on 11/18/2005 1:02:04 PM PST by SmithL
"But, seriously, is it well to glorify a murderous villain on the scaffold, as Pike was glorified in New Hampshire? Is it well to turn the penalty for a bloody crime into a reward? Is it just to do it? Is, it safe?"
ROFL! You guys rock.
You're terminated.
"There comes a time in the history of every people when they become so pathologically soft and tender that they actually side with those elements of their society that harms them..i.e. criminals"-A Great Historian 1888
That's it! Fry him. (or whatever weirdness they do in California)
Thank you for a reasoned and fact-based response. Such is a rarity in many of these threads.
COOK EM DANNO
BTW James, can I ask where you are getting your "facts" wrt this individual?
From the LSM or where?
Can I get you a nice glass of Kool-Aid?
If he has reformed his ways (which is what many death-row inmates seem to do) then good on him.
But the bill must be paid. Tookie doesn't get to work off his sentence.
"it's a desire for revenge, dressed up in the clothing of justice in order to make people feel better about it."
No James, for me it's not anyway and I live here in Cali.
He's draining our state coffers of money and converting oxygen into carbon dioxide.
Seriesly, I for one would like to see the wheels of justice and the resultant penalties exacted in a manner which leads the killers in our midst to possibly.....just possibly think they might actually pay a price sooner than the 25+ years it now takes to complete the cycle.
Tookie Must Die
Don’t Be Deceived By Stanley “Tookie” Williams
Once in a while we would receive news that a convicted murderer repents what he did and becomes a reborn believer in God. Very often, the convicted murderer would use his apparent repentance and good behavior as grounds for clemency from the death penalty.
While I believe that it is possible for a convicted murderer to truly repent his wrong-doings and that the death sentence can be commuted with the consent of the victim’s family, we must take a very critical look at every case of appeal for clemency on grounds of good behavior in jail because the apparent good behavior can be a calculated act to achieve clemency rather than a transformation stemming from genuine repentance.
The high profile case of Crips co-founder Stanley “Tookie” Williams attracts a lot of attention lately not only because the date of his execution for murdering four people during two robberies is getting close, but also because he had been nominated by a member of the Swiss parliament for the Nobel peace prize citing his work in turning young people away from gangs.
People are usually more prone to believe the repentance of a convicted murderer when the convicted murderer and the people he appeals to share common grounds. For example, the Christian church are more likely to support clemency of a convicted murderer who claims to have become a Christian while in jail. (Ever heard of the Christian church supporting clemency of a convicted murderer who had become a Muslim or Buddhist while in jail?) Therefore, we must analyze the thoughts of the convicted murderer appealing for clemency impartially to discern if the apparent transformation is genuine or just a means to an end.
In Williams’ website www.tookie.com he posted two letters to incarcerated youth. In the first letter he emphasize the importance of self-education for the incarcerated youth, which is good advice. However, in the second letter, he exposes his real nature by comparing the correlation between prisoner and guard to that of slave versus master. Everybody knows that the slaves in America were not criminals. They were innocent victims captured by some devious and bigoted white people of that time for their selfish gains in slavery. Nowadays prisoners are people who have committed crimes including rapes and murders, so it is a big insult to Williams’ ancestors who were victims of grave injustice when he has the audacity to put himself, a convicted murderer of four people during robberies, on the same pedestal as the slaves, who were innocent victims. By putting forward the deceiving comparison, Williams exults himself and the criminals at the expense of his ancestors. Therefore, the second letter shows that Stanley “tookie” Williams is not genuine in repentance. He simply tries to exonerate himself and criminals like him with deceit instead of showing real remorse of guilt. His approach would seem to work on some prisoners, but the apparent change would not be an entirely benign one because it doesn’t have the element of real repentance and has the element of hatred towards people who uphold the law.
I understand that our justice system still has lots of problems. People have been incarcerated for rapes they did not commit until proven innocent by DNA. People have been put to death for murders but the real killer turned out after the execution. Police brutality towards the underprivileged. Treating drug addicts as criminals instead of sick people who need rehabilitation. Abuse of the three-strike law by convicting offenders who commit minor crimes to life imprisonment while rapists and even murderers can walk the streets after a few years in prison and then commit more heinous crimes. Yes, our justice system needs to be improved and even revolutionized but certainly not according to the absurd doctrine of Stanley “tookie” Williams.
It is naive if not ignorant for anybody to think that it would help to turn young people away from gangs if Williams is awarded a Nobel peace prize for his apparent anti-gang message. Years ago in another country, a teenager I knew boasted to me that he had shoplifted some snacks from a convenient store. When I tried to convince him not to do that again saying that he might get caught and end up in jail, he said that he saw a reality TV show about shoplifting in which the reformed teenage offenders were interviewed and also featured a drama about a teenage shoplifter. He said that it was so cool to be on TV and that he wanted to be like the teenage shoplifter in the TV drama who now became a star. Headline like “Convicted murderer and Crips co-founder nominated for Nobel peace prize” undoubtedly would have the same adverse effect in the minds of some innocent teenagers.
So some people think that the billboard featuring Fifty Cents with a horn in one hand and a gun on the other with the message “Get Rich or Die Trying” delivers the wrong message to people and needs to be removed. I agree. What if someone put up a billboard featuring Stanley ”tookie” Williams standing with four murder victims lying on the ground behind him? The victims have blood gushing out from gun shot wounds in their heads and Williams has thrown the gun on the ground and holding the award high like a champion. It goes with the message “Hi, kids. My name is Tookie. I am a surviving Crips co-founder, convicted murderer and now a Nobel peace prizewinner. Stay away from gangs. Peace .” Such obscenity should never be allowed either on billboard or in real life. Don’t tell me that Stanley “tookie” Williams is innocent of murder. Besides the four brutal murders that he has been convicted, the blood of every innocent victim murdered in robberies by the gang that he co-founded is also in his hands.
The so-called apology Williams posts on his website further exposes his hypocrisy. He did not apologize to any of the innocent people victimized or murdered by him and his gang members. And he only expressed cares to end child-on-child brutality and black-on-black brutality. So adult-on-adult and adult-on-child brutality doesn’t seem to bother him enough to be mentioned. A real man of peace would just say that he wants to struggle to end brutality in the streets. Why does he want to struggle to end black -on -black violence only? Only a racist like him would ignore the devastation his gang on people who are not black. A majority of the murder victim in hold ups in convenient stores and other businesses were people of other races like Hispanics, Chinese, Koreans, etc., who worked hard to support their families only to be murdered by the gang that he has created. By mentioning that he wants to struggle to end black-on-black brutality only instead of to end brutality against people of all races, his so-called apology tells us that his repentance is not genuine. Therefore his so-called apology is meaningless.
What ultimately exposes his un-repentance is that at the end of his so-called apology he wrote Stanley “Tookie” Williams, Surviving Crips Co-Founder. A man who is truly sorry that he had co-founded a violent gang would only mention it early in the text and would not be brazen enough to use it as his title at the end of the text. It shows that deep in his heart he still hangs onto and feel proud of his gangster legacy. A truly repentant man would have titled himself as Reformed Crips Co-Founder or something that reflects his feeling of remorse.
It’s still not too late for Stanley “Tookie” William to change his wrong ways of thinking and be a real man of peace. Remember, the Nobel peace prize does not make a man of peace, but true love for people of all races does.
Simon Pang
Don’t be Deceived by Stanley “Tookie” Williams (Part 2)
It is deplorable to see how unscrupulous some blind supporters of Stanley “Tookie” Williams could be in an effort to bestow an image of holiness on this convicted murderer and co-founder of the violent gang the Crips.
As if being a repeated nominee of Nobel prize of peace and literature is not enough, an author on the website Afro-netizen was blatant enough to try to glorify this unrepentant criminal by comparing him with Jesus Christ.
“The Resurrection of Stanley “Tookie” Williams”, the heading of the article says. It goes on saying “As Christians everywhere gather for Easter this weekend to celebrate the resurrection of Jesus Christ, Stanley "Tookie" Williams, a death row inmate and co-founder of the notorious Crips street gang, will sit in his cell. His agenda for the day, like every other day, will be atonement.”
Please give me a break. Enough is enough. Jesus is the Son of God who devoted his whole life in preaching the message of love, helping the poor and the sick and exposing the lies of hypocrites. When two thieves were crucified with Jesus, one of them repented his wrongdoings and his sin was forgiven but he still had to die for his crimes. The thief who repented did the right thing but only Jesus was glorified and only Jesus was resurrected by God. To compare the gang kingpin Stanley “Tookie” Williams with Jesus Christ and title the article “The Resurrection of Stanley “Tookie” Williams” is worse than inappropriate. It is blaspheme.
Don’t be deceived by the craftiness of the author who reported the atonement of Stanley “Tookie” Williams in the context of the celebration of the resurrection of Jesus Christ. The resurrection of Jesus Christ is a sign of the fulfillment of his effort to achieve atonement for the sins of mankind and bring about a New Covenant. Stanley “Tookie” Williams’ ostensible atonement is for his own heinous crimes. Stanley “Tookie” Williams is not Jesus Christ nor a saint. He is a cunning criminal who refuses to truly repent and has succeeded in deceiving some gullible people to believe that he has changed into a man of peace who deserves the Nobel peace prize and the status comparable to that of Jesus Christ.
I certainly do not believe Stanley “Tookie” Williams’ claim that he is innocent for the murder of four people during robbery. First of all, he changed his defense from maintaining that he did not do it to that of “even if I did it, I am not guilty because I suffer from brain damage” and then cast his brain damage defense aside and maintained again that he did not do it when he became well-known for his so-called anti-gang children’s books. This shifting of defense does not conform to the pattern of proven wrongly accused people in present day America, who all persistently maintain that they did not commit the crimes. Secondly, even in his so-called apology, he exhibits no love and concern for the well-beings of the people of any other race other than black. That is consistent with the fact that that all his murder victims were non-black. If any of the four victims, one white and three Asians, could survive his gunshot attack, I have no doubt that they would still be terrified and would not believe that Stanley “Tookie” Williams has changed into a man of peace when he is allowed to read to them his so-called apology which says that he wants to “struggle to end black-on-black violence” but fails to mention ending violence against people of other colors or races. Thirdly, I think he should be responsible for other murders committed in robberies by the gang that he has co-founded when he was the head of that gang. His failure to apologize to the murder victims and to their families shows that he is as unrepentant as the thief who railed at Jesus, not by words though, but by parading himself or allows himself to be paraded as if he is comparable to Jesus Christ.
In spite of the un-repentance of Stanley “Tookie” Williams, I think he will still be able serve as a very good and convincing example to dissuade young people from gangs- when he got executed for the murders that he had committed directly or as the kingpin of a violent gang.
Stanley “Tookie” Williams should understand that he will die a more respected man when he truly repent his wrongdoings and truly apologize to the murder victims and their families before the execution than when he get nominated for the Nobel peace prize as an unrepentant man and a racist who cares only about his own race.
Simon Pang
Don’t be Deceived by Stanley “Tookie” Williams (part 3)
It is easy for the self-righteous people who have never had a love one brutally murdered and who are not survivors of brutal murder attempts to declare that they believe in forgiveness and oppose the death penalty. These self-righteous people have no right at all to speak for either the victims or the victim’s family. Yet they brazenly rally for the murderers when they and the murderers appear to share the same religion, the same political views, belong to the same ethnic group, when they are in a position unlikely to fall victim to those kind of murderers or when they are on death row for murder.
They deceive themselves into believing that their act of opposing the death penalty stems from the concept of forgiveness and higher justice but in depth analysis shows that it actually stems from nepotism, apathy towards the suffering of the innocent victims and un-repentance. They would put forward the absurd claim that putting a murderer to death is murder by ignoring the fact that murderers killed the innocent and the death penalty kills the guilty. They would say that putting a murderer to death by lethal injection is cruel and barbaric but ignore the fact that the victims suffered immensely greater pain when they were being murdered.
It is ignorant if not hypocritical for self-professed Christians to stand against the death penalty as if they are people of peace and forgiveness by ignoring their own bloody history. The inquisition of the medieval Christian church tortured and killed a lot of innocent people by falsely accusing them of being witches. The early church also put gay people to death but often ignored sexual transgressions committed by church leaders. During the great plague thousands of innocent Jews were burned to death by ignorant people of the Christian church accusing them of poisoning the water even though Jews died at the same rate from the disease as those so-called Christians. The Crusaders led by the Christian church invaded some of the middle-east cities and slaughtered a lot of the inhabitants including women and children in the name of God.
It is also wrong for contemporary Christians to over-compensate the bloodily past of the church by blindly opposing the death penalty. It is a fact that the death penalty was decreed by God to Moses in the Old Testament and not forbidden in the New Testament. In fact, God even carried out the death penalty of a couple who lied to the Holy Spirit ( The Acts 5:1-10) and of a king who committed blasphemy (The Act 12:20-23). God had even carried out the death penalty on a grand scale in the great flood. So those who oppose the death penalty in the name of God have no basis at all and they merely do it out of their own ignorance and self-righteousness.
It is ironic that countries that abolish the death penalty still keep an army with lethal weapons and even weapon of mass destruction. Based on their naive reasoning, soldiers of these countries should never shoot back at the invading soldiers with lethal weapons because it is “murder against murder” as they say. Even if we assume these countries will not use their nuclear weapons to invade another country, it would still be “murder” if it is used for retaliating an unprovoked nuclear attack. The fact is that the leader of these countries are not stupid enough to destroy their lethal weapons because they know that their readiness to use those weapons can deter invasion by another country. If we live in a perfect world with no wars and murders, we don’t need lethal weapons and the death penalty. But too bad we don’t live in a perfect world, so we need both.
For those who oppose the death penalty and have a beloved family, I would like them to be honest with me. If a vicious gangster has broken into your house and raped your beloved daughter at gun point in front of you and then murdered her by shooting her in her head and he was about to murder your beloved spouse as well with the gun, at that critical moment you were able to get close enough to get a gun from a concealed place while he was not watching you, would you use it to shoot the gangster to death knowing that if you don’t give him a fatal shot, he would still be able to shoot your spouse and you to death? If you answer is yes, you are a hypocrite to say that you are against the death penalty because you are the executioner. If your answer is no, you are a cold-blooded monster no better than the gangster whose life you spared in favor of your spouse’s. What if you were able to get hold of your concealed gun only after the gangster has fired a fatal shot at your spouse as well and he was about to escape because he heard the police siren approaching and he didn’t realize you had a gun. Would you still shoot at him? If your answer is yes, again you are a hypocrite because you might “murder” him with the gunshot. If your answer is no, you are a cold-blooded idiot who intelligence is so low that you would rather let the vicious murderer get away with the gun still in his hand (which by the way was still self-defense according to the law if you shot at him because he might turn around and shot at you before leaving the door) and possibly committing more murders later including you as the victim than give him what he deserved.
Of course, for vicious murders who have nothing to lose, they can say whatever they want, it means nothing at all. If a murderer opposes the death penalty it is understandable. It doesn’t mean he has become a saint who really cares about the lives of his victims.
As I said before, clemency should only be given to truly reformed convicts with the consent of the victim’s family. Neither is the case with Stanley “Tookie” Williams. Why are some people so blind to see that Stanley “Tookie” Williams is still a vicious person who has no love and concern for people of any other race other than black even though I have shown everybody the proof? Even though Adolf Hitler loved his own race and he was considered by the Germans to have great contribution for the German youths, he was still a war criminal who deserved to die for the horrendous crime he had committed against people of other races even though he had never fire a shot at any of his victims. Stanley “Tookie” Williams’ insidious teachings of hatred towards law enforcement officers and lacking of love and concern for people of other races is not a recipe for peace. If he is granted clemency, he will be able to lure more unsuspecting black youths into his world of violence against people of other races. When Stanley “Tookie” Williams is executed for his crimes of murder, it will show people a convincing example that if you murder somebody, you will be put to death for murder. It will not deter all murders but it will deter some at least.
If Stanley “Tookie” Williams messages were so great and so useful in deterring youth from gangs and crimes as his blind supporters claim to be, can they explain how come his so-called anti-gang message failed to reform his two sons? One of his sons is now in prison for murder and his other son has had several felony convictions and is now being wanted by the Fontana police for forcing a thirteen year old girl to commit sex act on him at gun point.
Since Stanley “Tookie” Williams cannot convince even his own sons to give up crime and violence with his so-called anti-gang message, it is preposterous for his blind supporters to insist that he is doing a good job in turning young people away gangs.
Yes, we should forgive people who truly repent. Stanley “Tookie” Williams is definitely not one of them.
Simon Pang
I am a Christian and a very active one at that. I would like to say I agree with all you have to say. You put it very well. He has no defence.. Let him take it up with God. Let God be the final Judge in this horrible matter. Eternity is what counts anyway....
After reading Governor Schwarzenegger's Decision Report on denying clemency to Stanley Williams on the website www.mercurynews.com , I am more convinced than ever that Stanley Williams is guilty of the murders and I am convinced that Governor Schwarzenegger has made a correct decision based on prudent consideration of facts relating to the case.
People who are deceived by Stanley Williams that he has changed into a man of peace ought to visit the website to see the real nature of this unrepentant criminal. He is brazen enough to dedicated one of his so-called anti-gang books to a violent criminal, George Jackson, who was charged with the murder of a San Quentin correctional officer and involved in a violent escape attempt in court in which the judge was shot to dead by one of his accomplices.
Stanley Williams deserves to die for his heinous crimes. This is the destiny of gangs who kill innocent people. This is the real anti-gang message.
Simon Pang
Many death penalty opponent of the Christian faith would use the episode of Jesus saving the life of an adulteress as an example to support their belief. But these people don't understand that Jesus Christ, in his effort to transcend the law, only did away with capital punishment relating to consensual sexual crimes which can be quite arbitrary and subjective in different space and time. Even in modern societies, the punishment for crimes of passion can be excessive in some countries and cruel in the others. Jesus did not abolish or advocated to abolish capital punishment relating to murder because it is necessary in a society with violent criminals. That’s why Jesus used His wisdom of love and compassion to stop the execution of the adulteress described in (John 8:11) but allowed criminals who had committed violent crimes to be execute with him and only the criminal who truly repented his wrong-doings with humility had the privilege to be with Jesus in the after life (Luke 23:33-43). It is necessary for you to know that the cruel punishment of stoning to death of the adulterer and adulteress was a law decreed by God the Father (Leviticus 20:10) but the Son of God got rid of it together with some other apparently important religious laws and in his acts of transcending the law the hypocritical religious establishment was offended which led to his being accused of having a demon (John 7:19-20) and his self-sacrifice on the cross . If someone with immense compassion in the time of Christ refused to obey that cruel law of stoning adulterer and adulteress to death decreed by God the Father without being enlightened by Christ, do you think Jesus would condemn him for not casting the stone? Of course not. It is my belief that the teaching of eternal damnation of hell fire is a barbaric teaching that Jesus needs to get rid of because it does not conform to His teaching of love.
It is not for me to judge if Stanley Tookie Williams will go to heaven or hell. It is up to God to judge him in his after life. But I can tell you from the love within my heart that someday, somehow all souls, including the soul of Stanley Tookie Williams, will be saved. When that ultimate salvation is achieved, there will be no heaven and there will be no hell but Eternal Love.( 1 Corinthians 13) (Hebrew 6:1-3)
Yeah thats right, there ya go...some role model...LOL
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