Washington talking to Warsaw about possible U.S. missile base in Poland

CNEWS ^ | November 16, 2005 | ROBERT BURNS

[twinself]

I avoid agreeing with stupid statements as a rule.

[TalonDJ]

I presume that Poland will not diminish her risks by this installations but opposite become legitimate nuclier target and then increases her risks.

If a Russian/American nuclear war was the most likely thing then you are right. But it is not. Our missile defense systems do not have the capacity to come close to stopping a Russian missile attack or retaliation. Hence they would do little good in an all out war of super powers. The Poland base it positioned to intercept a Iranian missile headed for Europe. We and the Poles are betting that that is much more likely than a Russo/America war. From that perspective the base is making Poland safer. From a non war political perspective it is making the USA more closely tied to Poland and more likely to pack Poland in international politics. Since those relationships are sure to happen and a nuclear war is not sure to happen then it is a pretty good gamble. This base does almost nothing to the potency of the Russian strategic nuclear force. I don't think they have anything to worry about unless they are worrying about the US being more closely allied to the Poles.

[RusIvan]

I don't think they have anything to worry about unless they are worrying about the US being more closely allied to the Poles.==

If it is not directed against Russia then Russia has nothing to worry.

[RusIvan]

I avoid agreeing with stupid statements as a rule.==

Good rule:). Tell it to vox_PL:).

[twinself]

I'm somehow OK with the fact that Russia points her nukes at Poland. In your place I would do the same. Poland is USA's ally and in case of any conflict between Russia and the States (I don't wish you any) we will immediately become a target.

I'll put it that way. You are probably familiar with the term "game theory", right? So there's a game: you are Sycilian and you own a quiet restaurant. Local mafioso pays you a visit to get his share of the business. You don't want ot pay. SO You hava a choice: you can face him unprepared and if the things turn nasty during the talks he'll kill you or you'd go armed risking he finds out and will try to you knowing you could kill him in self-defence. Of course there's a chance that all talks will run smoothly without any shooting. What YOU'd rather do? :)

[Freelance Warrior]

What do you think about the Swiss way? They have a quiet restaurant while are not allied with anybody. The issue whether the proposed base is against Russia or not is an issue of trust/distrust. From the Polands's view Russia won't be able to invade Poland any soon with conventional means while using nuclear weapon against Poland is pointless in terms of profit. Who needs a nuclear wasteland? Why would Russia want Polish territory? Poland could use the time to progress up to Germany's or France's level of development.

[Freelance Warrior]

As we consider the proposed military base to be a threat to Russia, the base can be aimed - its coordinates typed in into military computers. So Poland risks its territory to become battlefield. This decision looks risky for Poland, IMHO.

[RusIvan]

As we consider the proposed military base to be a threat to Russia, the base can be aimed ==

As polish patriot vox_PL stands for rights for Poland to do whatever Poland wants. And sametime he find it very offending if someone reacts in unfavorably on Poland doings. It is polish logical bias. Vox_PL never see polish wrongdoings but he see well if someone reacts on polish actions in way he doesn't like.

[Freelance Warrior]

Some people in Poland like vox_PL just want a war with Russia.

[lizol]

I think TalonDJ has exactly the point.

I don't know how many nuclear missiles has Russia, but several thousands probably.

And in such a single base how many anti-missiels can be deployed? Several dozens? Hundreds?

So it's definitely not against Russia

It's supposed to be the European branch of American anti-missile system against axis of evil.

And again Europe has a reason to be grateful to U.S.

[twinself]

I respect the Swiss way very much. But as you know their story is very complicated, unique and unlikely to be repeated by any country because of geography (not flat but surrounded by mountains), long neutrality tradition (no wars in centuries), coexistence of different cultures, languages (3 equal official languages). To reverse the question - what do you think about the Canadian way?
It is in well understood Polish and American interest to be able to protect themselves against attack from any side. There's nothing to discuss here. So although nobody really wants atomic wasteland Russia "owns guns" and wouldn't disarm if China nicely asked to, is that right? And China doesn't want Russian territory, too.
P.S.
French have nukes. But I don't think this or % of muslim population is the level of development you had in mind.

[iva]

"LEAVE US ALONE, RUSSIANS. LEAVE US ALONE FOREVER!!!"

These can be russian words towards poles, but it seems that is Poland do everything possible, do their best to be noticed...

[Freelance Warrior]

I want Poland was cut out from Russia forever! Do you understand? FOREVER!!! Just not to hear your language, not to see your faces - just this, and nothing more!

LEAVE US ALONE, RUSSIANS. LEAVE US ALONE FOREVER!!!

Oh, how sad. Too bad. Now share with me what would you to Russia and Russians.

[Freelance Warrior]

To reverse the question - what do you think about the Canadian way?

I'm sorry I don't quite understand you. Please expand on that.

It is in well understood Polish and American interest to be able to protect themselves against attack from any side.

Well some steps may be thought agressive.

Russia "owns guns" and wouldn't disarm if China nicely asked to, is that right?

Right. The nuclear arsenal is commonly regarded in Russia as the only reason why Russia isn't being attacked.

And China doesn't want Russian territory, too.

I doubt. They don't seriously think about that but they may want this in future.

French have nukes. But I don't think this or % of muslim population is the level of development you had in mind.

I meant nothing of that but the level of their business, industry, science and technology. Once Poland progresses in these spheres, Poles would probably feel themselves more self-assured and stop this "little nation bordering a big one(s)" thing.

As for the nukes, that a fruit of such improvement.

[kaiser80]

stands for rights for Poland to do whatever Poland wants. And sametime he find it very offending if someone reacts in unfavorably on Poland doings. It is polish logical bias. Vox_PL never see polish wrongdoings but he see well if someone reacts on polish actions in way he doesn't like.

I realy can't see ANY threat to Russia because of those bases...Can you??

[kaiser80]

Some people in Poland like vox_PL just want a war with Russia

Only idiots want war with Russia...What the f*** for?