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To: Wolfstar; WildHorseCrash
Einstein observed that he had a "humble admiration of the illimitable superior Spirit who reveals Himself in the slight details we're able to perceive with our frail and feeble minds."

Form, function, purpose, design are hallmarks of a creator. It seems implausible that we should believe that something exponentially more complex than a watch (to use the old but pertinent analogy) could come into existence due to mindless natural causes. It seems more reasonable to believe that there is a mind, an intelligence, a creator.

Where did God come from? A God with the power to create the known universe is beyond our comprehension. Kalam's argument says that everything with a beginning had a beginner. Scripture reveals God to be infinite, without a beginning. It is outside our experience.
891 posted on 11/17/2005 4:05:51 PM PST by GOPPachyderm
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To: GOPPachyderm
It's too glib and easy to say that God is infinite and beyond understanding. The difficult thing to do is to attempt to answer the question, "Where did God come from?"

The universe is vast and complex. So it follows that its creator must be even more complex. To paraphrase your statement, it seems implausible that we should believe a creator exponentially more complex than a watch could could just be.

894 posted on 11/17/2005 4:22:31 PM PST by Wolfstar (The stakes in the global war on terror are too high for politicians to throw out false charges.)
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To: GOPPachyderm
Einstein observed that he had a "humble admiration of the illimitable superior Spirit who reveals Himself in the slight details we're able to perceive with our frail and feeble minds."

Einstein was of a poetic bent. But, further, he did real science. So whether he was theistic or not is really irrelevant. His science is what that matters.

Form, function, purpose, design are hallmarks of a creator.

And you assume that all these things can be shown in nature. They cannot. Further, those that can simply does not point to any creator other than natural forces.

It seems implausible that we should believe that something exponentially more complex than a watch (to use the old but pertinent analogy) could come into existence due to mindless natural causes.

You misuse the word "implausible." It is very plausible. Further, here you mix apples and oranges to reach the result you want. The complexity of a man-made, mechanic object cannot be compared to the complexity of a biological organism with any reasonable hope of gaining any understanding of either. It is like dancing about architecture. The two just don't mix. (And, at its very heart, biological matter is rather complicated, but simple.)

It seems more reasonable to believe that there is a mind, an intelligence, a creator.

It does not seem reasonable to me to believe in something--to base your life and your entire outlook on life--on the existence of something for which there is no proof nor evidence.

Where did God come from? A God with the power to create the known universe is beyond our comprehension. Kalam's argument says that everything with a beginning had a beginner. Scripture reveals God to be infinite, without a beginning. It is outside our experience.

But that argument, again, is based on an a priori belief in that God and that scripture. There is no logical or rational reason for either of those beliefs over the alternatives.

980 posted on 11/18/2005 5:30:31 AM PST by WildHorseCrash
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