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To: r9etb
No. Although Thatcherite might state this, there is no logical or scientific reason to demand of an ID hypothesis, that supposed design decisions had to have been made for inscrutable reasons. You're assuming something that need not be assumed.

ID literature repeatedly states that it places no constraints on the designer. The designer could be anyone or anything, with no implied limits as to powers or motivation. If you want to place constraints on the designer then you'd better say what they are and why you've chosen those constraints, then we'll be able to judge if the designer may have been fiddling with our experiments.

We can see from the various "nature cleverly invented" popularizations of evolution, that the solution space of nature is entirely "scrutable" to us: we understand the optimization path in question, because it's often quite similar to how we would approach similar problems. We also understand that human ID decisions are generally are made for entirely understandable and practical reasons -- and probably never for "inscrutable" ones.

Very true and absolutely nothing to do with ID.

266 posted on 11/16/2005 11:57:15 AM PST by Thatcherite (F--ked in the afterlife, bullying feminized androgenous automaton euro-weenie blackguard)
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To: Thatcherite
ID literature repeatedly states that it places no constraints on the designer.

That presumably includes instances where one might attempt to constrain the putative designer to only inscrutable motives and methods....

If you want to place constraints on the designer then you'd better say what they are and why you've chosen those constraints, then we'll be able to judge if the designer may have been fiddling with our experiments.

One may approach this by the simple expedient of pointing out that we humans have the ability to understand (at some level) many of the processes of nature. As applied to ID, one could point out that we understand the practical purposes satisfied by various traits and phenomena. Furthermore, they are similar to the optimization approaches that we, ourselves, apply. The fact that we can understand these things directly, in terms of their practical applications, would argue strongly against the idea of inscrutability on the part of the hypothesized designer.

Very true and absolutely nothing to do with ID.

Recall that the comment was made in response to your claim that a designer must be completely inscrutable. But because inscrutability is not a necessary condition for a designer (for example, humans designers don't meet this standard), pointing to the "scrutablility" of what we see around us has quite a bit to do with ID, particularly in dismissing your attempt to impose inscrutability.

276 posted on 11/16/2005 12:10:18 PM PST by r9etb
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To: Thatcherite
ID literature repeatedly states that it places no constraints on the designer.

That isn't quite true. ID literature changes its statements depending on the targeted audience.

Dembski: "Indeed, intelligent design is just the Logos theology of John’s Gospel restated in the idiom of information theory."

345 posted on 11/16/2005 1:28:46 PM PST by Doctor Stochastic (Vegetabilisch = chaotisch ist der Charakter der Modernen. - Friedrich Schlegel)
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