Posted on 11/11/2005 4:49:50 AM PST by FerdieMurphy
Parents of elementary school children in California were upset that their kids were the targets of a sex survey conducted by the Palmdale School District. The survey, distributed in 2002, focused on how often prepubescent school kids thought about sex and touched themselves--you know, just the kind of things educators need to know to in order to effectively teach reading, writing and math skills.
The parents filed a lawsuit, claiming that the survey "violated parents' substantive due process and privacy rights." Last week, the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals, in Fields v. Palmdale School District [http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/data2/circs/9th/0356499p.pdf], dismissed the suit, saying:
We agree, and hold that there is no fundamental right of parents to be the exclusive provider of information regarding sexual matters to their children, either independent of their right to direct the upbringing and education of their children or encompassed by it. We also hold that parents have no due process or privacy right to override the determinations of public schools as to the information to which their children will be exposed while enrolled as students. Finally, we hold that the defendants' actions were rationally related to a legitimate state purpose.
The court's ruling certainly seems like a violation of the rights and privileges of parents. But is it really? First of all, the court's ruling does not create law. The Palmdale School Board can still be pressured to end such ridiculous practices. Secondly, the parents who are complaining have already shown that they do not hold the education of their children in high regard. I know this sounds harsh, but while I sympathize for the children, it's difficult to feel sorry for the parents. After all, they were the ones who turned custody of their children over to the government school system for six or seven hours a day, five days a week. Were they really all that surprised when the schools tried to undermine their parental authority?
By placing your child in the care of a government-run indoctrination center, you are saying that you trust the government to raise your child, essentially giving up your due process and privacy rights. You are admitting that the government is able to give your child something you cannot provide. When you consider how poorly the government manages everything else, why would any reasonable person think things would be different when it comes to education?
Note that the Ninth Circuit believes the school district's actions "were rationally related to a legitimate state purpose." In other words, those in control of public education have but one concern: the welfare of the state. Seeing to it that your child receives a quality education can only conflict with that.
There really isn't any way to sugar-coat this, so I'll just come right out and say it: If you willingly submit your child to the trappings of the government school system, then you have no right to complain about what they are taught. It would be like sending your kid off to play in oncoming traffic, expressing shock and outrage and blaming someone else when he was struck by a car. Sure, you can try to be involved by going to parent-teacher conferences, attending PTA meetings or getting elected to the school board, but when you get right down to it, you are in control of the education of your child.
My wife and I are in the process of adopting a little girl from China. This will be our first child, and even though it will be about a year before we travel to China to get her, we are preparing our home for her arrival. One of our main concerns is her future education. We are still weighing options, but one thing we know for certain is that she will never see the inside of a government school classroom. Why would we rescue her from a lifetime of socialist, atheist indoctrination in one country just so she can have the same experience on the other side of the world? Believe me; if that was our goal, it would be cheaper, less stressful and much easier just to leave her where she is.
For Christian parents, education is a tremendous responsibility. Believers have a duty to ensure that their children received a God-centered education. Scripture says, "The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge" (Proverbs 1:7a). Why settle for anything less?
They also need to run their schools! Federal influence in the schools should be nil.
When I say the state I mean the federales.
It doesn't take many.
Considering federal control of education is one of the major planks of the Communist Manifesto (and nowhere to be found in the Constitution) we should all be aware of the ultimate goals of these liberal (aka anti-American judges and educators).
True...what do they say about the "rotten apple?"
ping.
<>( Ferdie)
FerdieMurphy,
Why? So that YOU and YOUR philosophy can be imposed on other people's children? While I am highly sympathetic to your cause, the true solution is Separation of SCHOOL and State. The following is small part of an excellent essay explaining why there should be NO government education for many of the same reasons there should be no government religion:
http://www.fff.org/comment/com0405h.asp
Americans do not appreciate it, but the nations of Europe once had a similar battle over the state church. Horrible sectarian wars were fought between people who felt that unless they imposed their religion on others, the others would impose theirs on them.
Then, when civil strife had reached its peak, someone got a great idea: the separation of church and state. Let people choose and finance their own religion and leave government — that is, force — out of it. That idea culminated in the First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution. That doctrine, as much as anything, was responsible for the unprecedented civil harmony that existed in the United States for much of its history.
Today, almost no one in the United States wants a national religion. Yet most people are firmly committed to a national education. Conservatives and statist-liberals, Republicans and Democrats alike, favor uniform national standards for every public school in the nation. What most people do not realize is that national religion and national education involve similar issues and the same threat that someone’s ideas will be imposed on others.
Auberon Herbert, a libertarian in 19th century England, saw this clearly when he wrote:
Whoever fairly faces the question must admit that the same set of arguments which condemns a national religion also condemns a national system of education. It is hard to pronounce sentence on the one and absolve the other. Does a national church compel some to support system to which they are opposed? So does a national system of education. Does the one exalt the principle of majorities over the individual conscience? So does the other. Does a national church imply a distrust of the people, of their willingness to make sacrifices, of their capacity to manage their own affairs? So does a national system of education. Does the one chill and the repress higher meanings and produce formalism? So does the other. In America, state education is as much out of place as state religion.
America’s revolution was dedicated to freedom of conscience as well economic liberty. The limits on government power brought dramatic prosperity. The separation of church and state was a key expression of that limitation. But because of several contradictions in theory and practice, that libertarian revolution was not complete. We need to call a truce in the education wars used to separate school and state so that we may complete the stunted authentic liberal revolution and enjoy its material and spiritual fruits
Already Homeschoolers are making big impacts.Working Class)
Working Class,
My now adult 3 homeschooler are among those who have made BIG impacts. Two were the first of very young homeschoolers to be admitted to our state university. They did fabulously well and both graduated with B.S. degrees in mathematic at the ages of 18. One has just completed at masters degree in math at the age of 20.
As a result of our children's academic and social success this university is actively recruiting homeschoolers and homeschoolers are excelling.
It is now commonly known that homeschoolers have a far better chance ( on average) of being accepted to the most prestigious and elite universities than do thier government schooled contemporaries. .
Just checking in very quickly here, admittedly without having read everything (will do so later when I have the time), but are you saying that NOT teaching little children about sex, "gay" and otherwise, is tantamount to installing a federally mandating established church?
I have heard (and would like to have it verified, actually would perfer if it were found to be FALSE!), that the military is not going to be accepting homeschooled kids that have GEDS.
If anyone knows, ping me!
ping
Just checking in very quickly here, admittedly without having read everything (will do so later when I have the time), but are you saying that NOT teaching little children about sex, "gay" and otherwise, is tantamount to installing a federally mandating established church? ( Little Jeremiah)
Little Jeremiah,
The government school can NOT take a morally, culturally, politically, or values free position on teaching little children about sex, "gay" or otherwise.
Not matter how the government school approaches the topic ( or even if it ignores it), the government school WILL be establishing the moral, cultural, political, and religious or non-religious worldview of the favored citizens and trashing those of the less politically favored citizens.
In otherwords, government schools are UNCONSTITUTIONAL on both the federal and state levels.
The only solution is complete separation of SCHOOL and state.
The following is an excellent essay explaining the unconstitutionality of government schooling:
The following is an excellent essay explaining the unconstitutionality of government schooling
http://www.newswithviews.com/Stuter/stuter9.htm
Will read everything plus links later (just sneaking onto FR for a minute.)
But I think that while we may agree on many things, I disagree that the government cannot promote any kind of morality without violating the Constitution. Why do I hold that opinion?
1. Because that is the opinion of the actual writers and signers of the Constitution.
2. Moral absolutes are universal, in all religions, and the promotion of same are absolutely necessary for civilization to remain human and civilized. By not promoting universal moral absolutes, the reverse are promoted.
3. There is no such thing as values free education. It is a mirage, a myth, and does not and cannot exist.
Be back later to read all and no doubt add to the thread!
I agree with separation of school and State, esp on the fed level. I think that very local gov'ts (say county or city) might be able to decide if they want to create schools. But the way things are now - a vast tentacled network of overwhleming crapola laws - it can't happen.
Another problem is the vast number of feral humans.
Even if school districts were as small as a suburban subdivision block, it would be almost impossible for even local schools to avoid the political, cultural, and religious cat fights over government school curriculum and school policies.
Solution: Remove your own child from government school immediately and work to organize a completely private system of universal K-12 education.
Moral Absolutes Ping.
I guess I can ping it without having read it all if I can post comments! Interesting discussion and will get back to the thread later when I actually read it!!!
Freepmail me if you want on/off this pinglist.
Note: If anyone thinks "MY" school is fine, that just means it has a bullseye painted on it and it's only a matter of time before GLSEN invades. Also, check out your kids' schoolbooks. I have yet to see a kids' text book that is not saturated (and this includes MATH books) with leftist indoctrination and propaganda of all descriptions. Add to that the number of child molesting teachers, other kids who will/may influence your children in detrimental ways, and the fact that a majority of teachers hold seriously leftists viewpoints, and there it is. Sending your kid to public school is a dangerous form of Russian Roulette.
So do I !!!
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