Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

To: Junior; P-Marlowe

"why would you even think that a fictionalized account of how the Hebrews arrived at the same rules means that Jesus or Moses were frauds or fantasies?"

Because both claimed they were direct revelations from the God, not myths or legends. But I'm intrigued by your "*Aside from the first couple of commandments, the rest are simply common sense measures to allow people to live together peacefully."

Why, if there is noone to ultimately answer to, should anyone worry about "living peacefully" with neighbors? That is a principle for the weak to live by, not the strong and clever. If I have the most powerful navy, why not impose "gunboat" diplomacy on lesser nations? If I have the most powerful army, why not impose my will on weaker peoples? If I'm stronger than my neighbor why not take his wife, car, house and money? The existentialist Jean-Paul Sartre says that "If God is dead, everything is permitted." In other words, if there is no supreme being to lay down the moral law, each individual is free to do as he or she pleases. Without a divine lawgiver, there can be no universal moral law.

If we are just random "accidents", products of chemicals, why should we care about anything but ourselves and why should we speculate about origins, purpose or being?


244 posted on 11/10/2005 2:25:54 PM PST by blue-duncan
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 187 | View Replies ]


To: blue-duncan
It's an interesting point of departure. There has been an amount of thought about this in the past several millenia, some of which is still available in book form, and translated into modern languages. Not all of it makes reference to religious matters.

If in conquering everybody and taking their stuff, one manages somehow to avoid early retirement due to a dirk in the ribs, one may reflect in old age on whether working cooperatively in a community might not be less arduous and far more productive of happiness.

248 posted on 11/10/2005 2:34:51 PM PST by RightWhale (Repeal the law of the excluded middle)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 244 | View Replies ]

To: blue-duncan
"The existentialist Jean-Paul Sartre says that "If God is dead, everything is permitted."

Sarte was wrong.
249 posted on 11/10/2005 2:35:00 PM PST by CarolinaGuitarman ("There is a grandeur in this view of life...")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 244 | View Replies ]

To: blue-duncan
The existentialist Jean-Paul Sartre says that "If God is dead, everything is permitted."

I thought that was Ivan in Dostoevsky's The Brothers Karamazov? (But then maybe this naive formulation isn't as persuasive coming from a fictional character that turns around and kills himself.)

253 posted on 11/10/2005 2:39:22 PM PST by Stultis
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 244 | View Replies ]

To: blue-duncan
Because both claimed they were direct revelations from the God...

Why did the Hebrews need to be told these things by God, but other societies were able to work it out for themselves?

You see, we have numerous data points of other societies coming up with similar codes; why should we accept Divine intervention for the Hebrew version? Simply because a book says that's the way it was?

Would that you were to examine your personal beliefs as thoroughly as you claim to examine scientific findings.

268 posted on 11/10/2005 3:38:12 PM PST by Junior (From now on, I'll stick to science, and leave the hunting alien mutants to the experts!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 244 | View Replies ]

To: blue-duncan
Why, if there is noone to ultimately answer to, should anyone worry about "living peacefully" with neighbors? That is a principle for the weak to live by, not the strong and clever. If I have the most powerful navy, why not impose "gunboat" diplomacy on lesser nations? If I have the most powerful army, why not impose my will on weaker peoples? If I'm stronger than my neighbor why not take his wife, car, house and money? The existentialist Jean-Paul Sartre says that "If God is dead, everything is permitted." In other words, if there is no supreme being to lay down the moral law, each individual is free to do as he or she pleases. Without a divine lawgiver, there can be no universal moral law.

Societies based on such principals don't work. They are out-competed very effectively by societies that promote co-operation. Easy when you think about it, and mathematically demonstrable. Try googling the "repeated prisoner's dilemma" to see why benefits accrue from *not* picking the option with the biggest payoff all the time, if that option involves screwing your neighbour. Oddly enough the creationist's arch-demon Dawkins has done a lot of work in this area in his guise as a real biologist, rather than a pop-biologist.

284 posted on 11/10/2005 4:16:22 PM PST by Thatcherite (Feminized androgenous automaton euro-weenie blackguard)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 244 | View Replies ]

To: blue-duncan
The existentialist Jean-Paul Sartre says that "If God is dead, everything is permitted."

Well, if Sartre said it, then I suppose Hell is other people too. Having lived in apartments before, I can at least confirm that Hell is noisy neighbors.

319 posted on 11/10/2005 4:48:54 PM PST by RogueIsland
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 244 | View Replies ]

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article


FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson