Federal lawsuit could follow board vote [Evolution in Kansas & Dover]

Lawrence Journal-World [Kansas] ^ | 08 November 2005 | Joel Mathis

[js1138]

Military or basketball metaphors. Decisions, decisions.

[VadeRetro]

I have brilliant and utterly crushing responses to all your childish taunts but they would be wasted here.

[Dimensio]

" In the Copernican and Darwinian Revolutions lie hidden far more consequences than those hinted at above. For example, the “Green Revolution,” an attempt to alleviate hunger by hybridizing high-yield crops has fallen flat on its evolutionary face because none of the hybrids can survive for more than a handful of generations"

Anyone know if any of the more "mainstream" organizations have tried out this argument?

[Thatcherite]

Actually, Jenny, the uncle issue is a little less gray than the ID issue and WAY more annoying, so I thought I would start there.

I agree, it was really annoying when you claimed that your uncle, apparently a top scientist, was talking total nonsense about science. That's where it should have stopped. Any time your uncle wants to join the debate I'll be happy to have him educate me on where I am going wrong.

In the meantime I've been becoming more educated on the ID/Neo-Darwinism debate, and while it is mildly interesting, I continually get both bored and overwhelmed, because it would be great to find a magic bullet that would put one theory above the other.

Ah, evolution is a theory about variation and speciation. Now which is the other that you refer to? Evidently not ID, which even Michael Behe, the world's leading scientific exponent of ID, agrees is not a theory in the sense that scientists use the word (I already posted a link to his under-oath admission of that fact).

I participated in a debate on another forum which I enjoyed, and I've been trading emails with a lot of intelligent people who make compelling arguments.

That sounds a bit like how this thread was going, until someone laughed at those on the other side of this debate because they are f--ked in the afterlife for their beliefs. Oh... wait...

It is blatantly obvious that there is an amazing degree of scientific elitism on the evolution side of this issue. There is way more here on FR than anywhere else, and while I asked for, received and discussed facts and refutations, I have no interest in posting them here. It was definitely interesting and educational, but it would be wasted here.

I stand ready to be convinced. Thus far you have not posed a single argument of consequence. Just show the physical evidence for whatever position it is that you favour and we'll talk about it. Threatening eternal damnation to those who disagree doesn't count. Lest you get het up about me harping on about that issue I note that you have never shown the slightest remorse for the remark itself, only anger that it should be "mischaracterised". Quite how one should correctly characterise glee at, "You are all f--ked" I cannot imagine.

So ID/evolution goes on the same trash heap with fiscal responsibility, CFR, Federalism and all the other stuff that I get tired of discussing on this board.

As far as I can see you haven't even started discussing ID/evolution on this board in any meaningful way. Do let us know when you are ready to start.

Feel free to donate money to the RAFA. As you've dragged your uncle into the debate I'll tell you about my father. My father was a combat pilot in WW2, 464 Mosquito squadron. He participated in the low-level Denmark raids (described in the RAF's official history as the most demanding flying by the RAF of the war) piloting the camera plane. I guess most people think this about their father, but he was without a doubt the finest man I have ever known. He was also a lifelong atheist and died a few months ago, after a painful illness. From your earlier posts I already know what you think it funny that your God thinks of him.

[WildTurkey]

Scientists are normal, flawed human beings. They are as capable of prejudice, covetousness, pride, deceitfulness, etc., as anyone.

Too bad the religious fanatics can't even make it to that bar ...

[WildTurkey]

We have our artifacts, you have some oral history, embellished and written down in a little black book by flawed human beings capable of prejudice, covetousness, pride and deceitfulness.

[Doctor Stochastic]

I've never heard anything about this. The "green revolution" has been around for more than a handful of generations.

[Dimensio]

I've never heard anything about this. The "green revolution" has been around for more than a handful of generations.

Wonder how hard it would be to try and get that kind of a claim into a mainstream creationist publication, just to demonstrate firsthand that they don't verify their sources or claims.

[Thatcherite]

Anyone know if any of the more "mainstream" organizations have tried out this argument?

Hmmm, forced evolution using hypbridisation often produces plants that don't thrive. That'll bring Darwinian evolution crashing to the ground. Yeah.

[Thatcherite]

hybridisation

[Dimensio]

Hmmm, forced evolution using hypbridisation often produces plants that don't thrive. That'll bring Darwinian evolution crashing to the ground.

Is it any more lame than a good number of the other arguments commonly peddled around here? I don't think it even tops "If man came from monkyes, why are there still monkeys?"

[PatrickHenry]

"If man came from monkyes, why are there still monkeys?"

To be added to the next row of the Evolution Troll's Toolkit, as soon as a few more goodies show up.

[Thatcherite]

To be added to the next row of the Evolution Troll's Toolkit, as soon as a few more goodies show up.

Don't forget, "Haeckel Fraud!"

[PatrickHenry]

Don't forget, "Haeckel Fraud!"

Yeah, but I've already got Piltdown Man. Lemme mull it over.

[Thatcherite]

I have brilliant and utterly crushing responses to all your childish taunts but they would be wasted here.

Ha! They are as nothing compared with my uncle's brilliant and utterly crushing responses to everyone here's feeble witticisms.

OK BIG SHOTS!

I challenge all of you to some undefined competition or other that I'll keep suitably vague in case anyone takes me up on it, and I'm naming my uncle as my champion. The winner gets the lifelong personal services of Nicole Kidman and Cameron Diaz (or Russell Crowe and Brad Pitt if their tastes are so inclined), but because I am currently married bigamously to the last 5 winners of the Miss Universe competition (who are all looking a bit tired after my Herculean bedroom efforts) I'll donate my winnings to a charity of my choice.

Bullies!

[js1138]

Many commercial crops, but corn in particular, are grown from hybrid seed. Hybrid corn does not produce commercially useful seeds (except of course to be eaten).

I lived in Indiana for quite a few years, and the radio commercials were just like those read by Les Nesman on WKRP, only more technical. Hybrid corn was the biggest sponsor.

[VadeRetro]

Go away or I shall be forced to sneer at you again.

[Doctor Stochastic]

Use of hybrid corn though isn't the "green revolution" although Lysenko did claim that such hybrids are non-productive. He claimed the only point of hybridization was to keep farmers enslaved to the Capitalist Seed Mongers.

[js1138]

It would be nice to have self-seeding crops. Fat chance.

[Doctor Stochastic]

It's easy to get self-seeding crops, they just don't do so well. It's a well-known problem in plant genetics.