United Methodist bishops affirm church membership open to all

titusonenine ^ | November 3, 2005 | Tim Tanton

[308MBR]

Born a Methodist and now a (backslidden) Baptist. The Methodists haven't done much since they became "United" with the World Council of Churches. I figure giving birth to the Pentecostals was pretty traumatic. All in good humor, folks.

[Rocketman]

We just had an article two days ago about the evengelical Lutheran church of South Africa admitted homosexuals and poligamists into their church and opened it up for them to become their preachers as well.

We see a trend here of denominations that are filled with rot -- confessing the rot in their beings.

[MPJackal]

I agree EVERYONE should be allowed in church. We are sinners after all. The problem I have is when a person that states he lives a sinful lifestyle (Gay, Adultery, whatever), and plans to continue living in sin, but wants to be the moral compass for the church.

But maybe I don't understand. Hey, times they are a changing. God just don't understand the way things are today.

[Rocketman]

Interesting thought - "God just diesn't understand what we are about today."

I'm kind of inclined to belive the opposite -- that the church of this day has lost its way -- and has little or no understanding of the Gospels much less the bible. Instead of knowing God beleivers have chained their salvation to these corupt denominations beleiving that the Catholic church can save them that Martin Luther and his teachings can save them John Calvin and his teachings can saved them or Menno Simons and his teachings can saved them.

When in fact none of these died for their sins and purchased their souls through redemption.

It would sort of be like following Ted Kennedy, Robert Byrd and Harry Reid to gain American citizen-ship None of them are trying to lead people to the constitution, or making people become good citizens instead they seek to make their disciples the two fold children of hell that they are. -- And in denomination after denomination in fundamentalist evangelical and pentecostal circles we see this same two-fold child principal being worked out on almost a daily basis in articles posted on FR.

and when thse things occur do these people and their followers repent? No never they stiffen their necks and harden their hearts and resist entrenching themselves even further into these church and denominations. Sounds oddly like some verses in the book of Revelation about plagues the beast and people not repenting.

[MPJackal]

You do know I was being sarcastic? But I have heard similar sentiments, that the Bible is out of touch with modern society. It amazes me.

I am also amazed that a church would change its' policy and allow practicing gays become ministers. I am pretty sure Jesus mentioned churches that take this path.

[peyton randolph]

When I attended college at SMU, at least half the theology students were openly homosexual. The United Methodist Church has essentially been operating under a don't-ask-don't-tell policy for the last 25 years when it comes to the clergy.

[naturalized]

This is my problem with people who practice homosexuality:

26If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, 27but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God. 28Anyone who rejected the law of Moses died without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29How much more severely do you think a man deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son of God under foot, who has treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified him, and who has insulted the Spirit of grace? 30For we know him who said, "It is mine to avenge; I will repay," and again, "The Lord will judge his people." 31It is a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

Hebrews 10

We may all be sinners, but those who practice homosexuality are deliberately sinning.

[little jeremiah]

Homosexual Agenda Ping.

I spoke too soon. Bad news after all.

Freepmail me and DirtyHarryY2K if you want on/off this pinglist.

[TexasGreg]

When I attended college at SMU, at least half the theology students were openly homosexual. The United Methodist Church has essentially been operating under a don't-ask-don't-tell policy for the last 25 years when it comes to the clergy.

When were you a student at SMU? The statement "at least half the theology students were openly homosexual" seems to me to be a bit hyperbolic. Also, we don't have a "don't-ask-don't-tell" policy ... the Board of Ordained Ministry sits each candidate down and shows them the paragraphs in the Discipline where it asserts that Homosexuality is incompatible with Christian teaching and that Self-avowed Practicing Homosexuals are not to be ordained or appointed within the UMC. They are required to state that they have read the paragraph, understand it, and will obey it. Hardly a "don't-ask-don't-tell" policy.

[peyton randolph]

I was there 15 years ago and lived in the theology school's dorm due to spacing issues elsewhere. Nothing like walking into the dorm hall bathroom and repeatedly interrupting homosexual activities. I moved out as soon as other space became available.

UMC's Board of Ordained Ministry may have a different policy than SMU on homosexuality. SMU had a gay student's association officially recognized by the university. By the early or mid-90s, I believe it was receiving its cut of student activity fees like College Republicans, Young Democrats, etc.

If UMC doesn't condone homosexuality amongs its clergy, one has to wonder why the screening doesn't occur as part of the admissions process to its theology schools?

[oceanperch]

Your post says it all.

Now why can't the open living in sin but it who I am and who cares what a private organizations policy is I want my may selfish people who want leadership positions simply understand it.

[ZULU]

"United Methodist bishops affirm church membership open to all"

I guess Satan is now free to join the United Methodist Church, if he isn't there already.

[Rocketman]

I realized that -- and I thought that you captured the essence of something that is running "underground" in the methodist and other denominations that are saying and doing these things.

That was a sacastic but powerful observation.

Incidentally many people say in sarcasm, and in jest, things that they really mean. -- only they shroud it in sarcasm and or jest to blunt the edge of an otherwise hard hitting truth.

Rush does that a lot.

[TexasGreg]

I was there 15 years ago and lived in the theology school's dorm due to spacing issues elsewhere. Nothing like walking into the dorm hall bathroom and repeatedly interrupting homosexual activities. I moved out as soon as other space became available.

I graduated from SMU with a BA in History and Religion in 1989; I lived next door to Perkins Hall ... I lived in Smith Hall for 3 years. As for what you ran into in bathrooms ... yes ... I ran into similar in the undergraduate dorms, too. All sorts of stuff went on. But anecdotes do not a valid claim of 50% or being gay make.

UMC's Board of Ordained Ministry may have a different policy than SMU on homosexuality.

The problem with your assertion is that the student body at Perkins School of Theology was, at that time, about 70% candidates for ordained ministry in the UMC. I know, personally and through the ministry, many of those who were students there at the time that you were there ... and the VAST MAJORITY are absolutely not Gay (their wives and children would be shocked to find out if they were).

SMU had a gay student's association officially recognized by the university. By the early or mid-90s, I believe it was receiving its cut of student activity fees like College Republicans, Young Democrats, etc.

Yes, it was. It was formed a few years before I started at SMU in the early/mid 1980s. So?? That doesn't prove that 50% or more of the student body at Perkins School of Theology was "out."

If UMC doesn't condone homosexuality amongs its clergy, one has to wonder why the screening doesn't occur as part of the admissions process to its theology schools?

The vetting occurs in the Candidacy process for ordained ministry at the District and Conference Level -- i.e., by the CHURCH, not the University. In the UMC, at least, we don't deny people the right to study because they're gay. Likewise, SMU is not totally controlled by the UMC ... indeed, the relationship is fairly loose between the entire University and the Denomination. Perkins is an affiliated seminary, true, but even here the educational institution's primary duty is to educate people in theological studies, NOT vet people as being fit for the ordained ministry.

As for the UMC's position on Homosexuality among it's clergy ... the following citations from the Book of Discipline should suffice to demonstrate the fact:

"Since the practice of homosexuality is incompatible with Christian teaching, self-avowed practicing homosexuals* are not to be accepted as candidates, ordained as ministers or appointed to serve in The United Methodist Church."
*Footnote –- "'Self-avowed practicing homosexual' is understood to mean that a person openly acknowledges to a bishop, district superintendent, district committee of ordained ministry, board of ordained ministry or clergy session that the person is a practicing homosexual." (Book of Discipline, Par. 304.3)

"Homosexual persons no less than heterosexual persons are individuals of sacred worth. All persons need the ministry and guidance of the church in their struggles for human fulfillment, as well as the spiritual and emotional care of a fellowship that enables reconciling relationships with God, with others, and with self. Although we do not condone the practice of homosexuality and consider this practice incompatible with Christian teaching, we affirm that God's grace is available to all. We commit ourselves to be in ministry for and with all persons." (From "The Nurturing Community," a section of the church's Social Principles, Par. 65G).

"The council on [Finance and Administration] shall be responsible for ensuring that no board, agency, committee, commission, or council shall give United Methodist funds to any gay caucus or group, or otherwise use such funds to promote the acceptance of homosexuality. The council shall have the right to stop such expenditures. This restriction shall not limit the church's ministry in response to the HIV epidemic." (Book of Discipline, Par. 806.12)

"We affirm the sanctity of the marriage covenant that is expressed in love, mutual support, personal commitment, and shared fidelity between a man and a woman...Ceremonies that celebrate homosexual unions shall not be conducted by our ministers and shall not be conducted in our churches." (From Social Principles, Par. 65C).

[Clemenza]

I had no idea that Methodists had "Bishops."

[peyton randolph]

I'm not trying to knock UMC. I'm just stating what I saw at SMU among the theology students. They might be the exception to the rule. For instance, married students were less likely to live in the dorm. I do know that when I lived there, there was plenty of homo hanky panky going on, it was out in the open, and certainly was not condemned by the school. From what I saw, the only programs that had more homosexuals at the time were the arts and music programs. No surprise there.

[Dr. Scarpetta]

“The United Methodist Church acknowledges that all persons are of sacred worth.

Aren't they PRO-CHOICE?

[stocksthatgoup]

Dwindling membership forces United Methodists to Throw Open The Front Door while even a greater number leave by the back door.

[aimhigh]

"United Methodist bishops affirm church membership open to all" I guess Satan is now free to join the United Methodist Church, if he isn't there already.

They don't believe in Satan, or much else related to Christianity.