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To: dmanLA
Here is the actual decision.

As usual, there is a bit more to it than the stupid fundraising email puts up for your willing consumption.

First, the parents whose kids were involved all gave their consent. They were told the general content of the questions would be about sex and 'areas that would make your child uncomfortable.' Yet they CONSENTED. Fools.

Second, the Circus wasn't sitting en banc, only in a three-judge panel, and their ruling sounds a lot more reasonable than you'd think:

"Although the parents are legitimately concerned with the subject of sexuality, there is no constitutional reason to distinguish that concern from any of the countless moral, religious, or philosophical objections that parents might have to other decisions of the School District — whether those objections regard information concerning guns, violence, the military, gay marriage, racial equality, slavery, the dissection of animals, or the teaching of scientifically-validated theories of the origins of life. Schools cannot be expected to accommodate the personal, moral or religious concerns of every parent. Such an obligation would not only contravene the educational mission of the public schools, but also would be impossible to satisfy."

Is the objective to make every iffy subject one that schools must survey with parents first and allow an opt-out at any point? How do schools know that a subject is iffy, especially if parents are too stupid to realize that they're signing a permission slip putting their kids through something they as parents or kids may find objectionable. Considering just how nightmarish that kind of scenario would be to administer, given the wide oversensitivities of pressure groups on all ends of the political spectrum, I am coming around to the school administrators' basic position: if you don't like government schools, you ought not to send your kids there. Granted, you ought not to have to pay taxes for the damn schools, then, either, but once you've sent your kids to what passes for public education, you ought to know what you've done, and not expect to get Exeter-level education for 'free.'

The same objection we have to making a right to abortion up out of thin air should be applicable when pressure groups ask a judge to create a Constitutional right to have government schools teaching your preferred curriculum. The solution is not to have government schools teach your preferred curriculum, or even giving your kids the right to skip those classes you find objectionable. It's to not have !@#$%$!@#$ government schools in the first place!

12 posted on 11/03/2005 6:13:07 PM PST by LibertarianInExile (ALITO! Nice Call! Lookin' good, Dubya!)
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To: LibertarianInExile

An insightful analysis.
Public education would transform overnight if parents were forced to sit down at the kitchen table and write checks directly for their children's education, by the quarter, instead of having the money disappear incrementally from their paychecks and then reappear magically in someone else's pocket.


15 posted on 11/03/2005 6:33:42 PM PST by Dan Lacey
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To: LibertarianInExile
The same objection we have to making a right to abortion up out of thin air should be applicable when pressure groups ask a judge to create a Constitutional right to have government schools teaching your preferred curriculum. The solution is not to have government schools teach your preferred curriculum, or even giving your kids the right to skip those classes you find objectionable. It's to not have !@#$%$!@#$ government schools in the first place!

I assume you have no concept of what morality is since you consider morality to comprise a part of the public school curriculum. Morality is not germane to public education!

Libertarians are known to be morally devoid -you take the cake!!!

20 posted on 11/03/2005 10:43:58 PM PST by DBeers (†)
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To: LibertarianInExile

Did you actually read your own link? In it is a copy of the "consent letter" sent to parents.

1The letter states:
“Parental Consent

Dear Parent or Caregiver:

The Palmdale School District is asking your support in participating in a district-wide study of our first, third and fifth grade children. The study will be a part of a collaborative effort with The California School of Professional Psychology — CSPP/ Alliant International University, Children’s Bureau of Southern California and the Palmdale School District.

The goal of this assessment is to establish a community baseline measure of children’s exposure to early trauma (for example, violence). We will identify internal behaviors such as anxiety and depression and external behaviors such as aggression and verbal abuse. As a result, we will be designing a district wide intervention program to help children reduce these barriers to learning, which students can participate in. Please read this consent letter and if you agree, please sign and send it back to your school’s principal no later than December 20, 2001."

Nowhere do I see any mention that it may be uncomfortable to the child or even about sex, but "for example, violence." Please point out where this letter of consent warns parents their child would be asked questions of a sexual nature and that they would be "uncomfortable" with them.


22 posted on 11/03/2005 11:03:31 PM PST by DakotaRed
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To: LibertarianInExile

My apologies, I see now where the decision broke the letter up it up into separate pages.


23 posted on 11/03/2005 11:08:19 PM PST by DakotaRed
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To: LibertarianInExile

In the rest of the letter, I still find no mention of questions of a sexual nature, just mention of the child may feel uncomfortable;

"The assessment will consist of three, twenty-minute self-report measures, which will be given to your child on one day during the last week of January. This study is 100% confidential and at no time will the information
gathered be used to identify your child. Your child will not be photographed or videotaped. You may refuse to have your child participate or withdraw from this study at any time without any penalty or loss of services to which your child is entitled.

[—page break—]

I am aware that the research study coordinator, Kristi Seymour, one research assistant, the Palmdale School District, Director of Psychology, Michael Geisser, and a professor from CSPP, will be the only people who have access to the study’s information. After the study is completed, all information will be locked in storage and then destroyed after a period of five years.

I understand answering questions may make my child feel uncomfortable. If this occurs, then, Kristi Seymour, the research study coordinator, will assist us in locating a therapist for further psychological help if necessary.

If I have further questions, I may contact Kristi Seymour at 1529 E. Palmdale Blvd., Suite 210, Palmdale, CA 93550 at 661.272.9997 x128. I understand that I will not be able to get my child’s individual results due to anonymity of the children, but I may get a summary report of the study results.

I have read this form and understand what it says. I her[e]by agree to allow my child to participate in this district-wide study.” (emphasis in original). Additionally, two lines were made available on the “Parental Consent” form for the “Parent/Caregiver” to sign and date it. 15065 FIELDS v. PALMDALE SCHOOL DIST."


24 posted on 11/03/2005 11:17:25 PM PST by DakotaRed
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