Is the "No Child Left Behind" Policy hurting our best and brightest?

http://www.kywnewsradio.com ^

[SouthernBoyupNorth]

There's a growing movement in the US that says the educational concept of "No Child Left Behind" is putting an emphasis on basic skills even as it leaves super-achieving kids behind. Bob Davidson is a dot-com millionaire who has co-written a book with his wife Jan titled, "Genius Denied."

[moog]

Whole language, whole math, group learning, guessing, Earth worship, social justice, etc. etc etc. have been crammed into kids heads for thirty years and NOW the best and brightest are being hurt? Bah.

I haven't seen those for years in the schools I've been associated with, but then it is different I imagine in other places.

[SoftballMominVA]

The best and the brightest should be going to private schools, on scholarship if the family doesn't have the money.

My daughter was offered a full 4 year scholarship to an exclusive private school last year. She turned it down because of the lack of AP classes and the shallowness of the math, science and computer program. Admittedly, the foreign language program blew the public school out of the water, but in every other catagory, nope, the pubic school came in first.

And no, we are not lucky to live in a good school district, we moved here because of it and my husband commutes over 2 hours to work so that our kids are in an excellent school.

[moog]

Bingo, that is exactly what they do and why many teachers hate it.

I got Bingo, can I get a gold star?

[moog]

Too many teachers in todays schools are busy telling children what to think about sexual identity,politics,save the whales..how to apply rubbers (and not the kind for feet!)..and pandering to the dullest students that our best and brightest are being held back.

Class, Benji here is a gay Democratic rubber chicken orca. Please go to the front and get your treat...

[moog]

I got so frustratied looking for them that I just went ahead and made one myself

John Kerry stole them for his wife.

[moog]

they refuse to force memorization of single digit operations, using calculators in third grade.

Sounds like a lot of adults I know--we are the spellcheck generation.

[moog]

The other is the level of parental involvment and interaction with the teachers and the children and the school itself. I think this part is often dismissed in many cases where teachers get all the blame. I totally agree with you. Parental involvement has much bearing on achievement of the children, the teachers and the school itself. In our school is is openly encouraged by the teachers and the principal - it's the district higher-ups that seem to be discouraging it.

I totally agree with you both, coming from both a teacher's and a personal standpoint.

[moog]

I went to college. Got an engineering degree. Haven't used it once, yet, in my career. Would I do it again? Probably not - I think that I'd go to trade school. Corporations are not going to outsource their plumbers, electricians, etc to India. And honestly, so long as I'm getting a daily challenge, I don't care what I do.

Nice straightforward comments.

[moog]

You've said that before. You aren't the guy that says Bush's fault are you?

[moog]

Two years ago my kids school did a segment about "private parts" (keep in mind this is in the first grade). This amounted to sexual harrasment training for little ones. I was shocked and appalled. To me this is something to be taught at home at this age especially. I fought, I lost. My only option was to remove him from the unit and thus segregate him from his class. To be sure a couple people said "not him again" about me in that timeframe too. :)

WHAT THE HECK?????? I teach first grade and I can't believe that happened. Wow! You can bet I would have been down there with you. Oh my!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[hoppity]

My wife teaches high school for problem children and I was at a little get together between some from her school and some from the regular high school. Both her and the teachers of the GT kids (gifted, talented) complained about the way they had to teach under "Every child takes it in the behind".

My wife teaches 5th grade. Her principal won't let the brighter kids be in a class together because the brighter ones "need to be role models for the the other students".

[moog]

Depends on your local school system. I felt the same way as you, but my daughter has thrived in our local public school. Get involved and informed before you take the doom and gloom of some of the posters on here to heart. I have seen many do as such. Not everyone here is doom and gloom as there are realistic people like Gabz. I see all sorts of wonderful things happen that won't get reported in the paper. I am SO SO SO thankful that as I teacher I am witness to so many of those good things. I get some top-notch parents too. I wonder how I got so lucky.

Most of the teachers in my school are some pretty good people. The quality has actually gotten better and some of the deadweight has been dropped.

[moog]

I'm having a little difficulty with most of your posts regarding the education system today vs. 40 or 50 years ago. As I look at the topics kids study in math, science etc they are way ahead of what we did in the 60s. heck the fact that NanoTech, quantum physics, chaos theory are part of science is a huge leap in what kids must know. The fact that history and social studies have been dumbed down is a problem of the left of center Teacher Colleges as much as the school boards.

Not until after World War II did more than half of the people graduate. I'm amazed at some of the stuff they teach in sixth grade for math, for example. It was stuff that I learned in 8th or 9th grade. Most of my first graders are reading chapter books by the end of the year. I didn't read them until 3rd grade and that was considered pretty good then.

[moog]

One thing I can not stand is a bureaucrat who forgets just whom it is that he/she works.

It's that way here for both parties sometimes.

[moog]

I have no problem with the basic premise of NCLB - but it also needs to be applied to the best and brightest and it is not.

Many aspects of it are designed to be punitive rather than the other way around.

[SauronOfMordor]

The problem isn't, "no child left behind", it's the public school system itself.

"No Child" is a big part of the problem. Schools get dinged if the lowest performers do not meet the minimum standards. They do not get rewarded if the highest-potential students perform well above the minimum standards. The net result is that the bulk of the resources get allocated to the lowest performers

This is why I pulled my oldest out of public school and homeschooled (she is now in college at 16 as an engineering major), followed by the middle one and the youngest

The incentive structure in place is the brilliant ones get ignored (figuring they'll sort themselves out somehow even with no attention). The lower performers they try to get labeled "special ed".

[photodawg]

jackbenimble wrote:
An unbelievable about of funding is spent trying to educate the bottom 20% of our population. I think we would be better off throwing the big bucks at the top 10% of our kids and getting the slower learners into trade schools and what not where they can learn how to do the jobs that Americans won't do.

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The middle of the pack go to trade schools, not the bottom 20%. The bottom 20% does not graduate from high school, has children out of wedlock in disproportionate numbers, and is rarely gainfully employed. To educate the best and the brightest, education has to be privatized. Public school has always been overburdened with a large group of "prisoners of war" who, were it not for compulsory education laws, would never set foot in the buildings. This is one of the great myths of America, that everyone benefits from a free public education. It simply isn't the case. Most countries view education as a privilege and don't force non performers to attend. In fact, they force non performers to leave. The best and brightest would stand a much better chance with home schooling over the Internet than in the public factories in existence today, taught by Godless unionized communists, exposed to the dregs of humanity in the name of the public good.

[moog]

My first graders in two months can write simple stories, know what compound words are, know what nouns and verbs are, are getting pretty good at contractions, know the difference between most uses of to/too/two, know what proper nouns are, know the different endings to sentences and when to use them, and so on. USN is right I think in that it IS elemantary or primary school.

[moog]

Schools get dinged if the lowest performers do not meet the minimum standards. They do not get rewarded if the highest-potential students perform well above the minimum standards.

Like I said, No child's behind left is punitive.

[DBeers]

No child left behind addresses the minimum requirements -it does not limit or impose maximum results.

It is the social engineering liberal mindset that "all children are the same" and should be treated the same to be fair - in the liberals mind it is not results that matter it is fairness, opportunity and participation etcetera that matter (same arguments used against NCLB) -it is this liberal mentality of equality that imposes limits systematically on or impedes individual performance (inequality)...