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To: airedale
"Simplifying it a bit he argues that "original sin" is a result of mans attempt to become god which damaged the relationship between man and God."

I call that the first sin. The Pope was correct, it was Adam and Eve's attempt to become like God, by taking what they thought was the living waters. This post here can be followed backwards to post #58, where I began the explainaiton.

"This damaged relationship and is cause affects all of our other relationships. This damages our relationship with our children, etc which is how it is passed on from father to son."

Now here there's a problem, because the Council of Orange(the Church) and all the mainline protestants say that all of man is guilty of the first man's sin. There is neither a damaged relaitonship, a natural tendency to sin, total depravity, nor guilt that passes on. Man is born in the image and likeness of God, just as it was in the beginning.

"Only God can fix the relationship and that's what God was doing with Jesus."

If God fixed this "relaitonship", then He could just do it. Nothing would be required of man at all. God said in John 6:44, "No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him, and I will raise him up at the last day." This does not happen by some act of God, such as applying some mysterious force of Grace. It happens by God making Himself known, man recognizing what is seen and judging. The draw is the teachings of the love, knowledge and wisdom of God. That is the action of the Holy Spirit making Himself known. That is man's to judge. John goes on:

John 6:45-51 It is written in the Prophets: 'They will all be taught by God.'[Isaiah 54:13] Everyone who listens to the Father and learns from him comes to me. No one has seen the Father except the one who is from God; only he has seen the Father. I tell you the truth, he who believes has everlasting life. I am the bread of life. Your forefathers ate the manna in the desert, yet they died. But here is the bread that comes down from heaven, which a man may eat and not die. I am the living bread that came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever. This bread is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world."

"As I said I'm simplifying his argument and would suggest you read his homily. "

Pope Benedict? Where is this homily?

170 posted on 10/28/2005 9:08:03 PM PDT by spunkets
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To: spunkets
It's one of the homilies in In the Beginning...: A Catholic Understanding of the Story of Creation and the Fall by Cardinal Ratzinger ISBN: 0802841066
180 posted on 10/29/2005 12:07:22 PM PDT by airedale ( XZ)
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